Rangers 5, Senators 6 (2OT)

From my series preview:

“Their forward depth isn’t impressive, unless you are scared of JG Pageau and Ryan Dzingel. (Now that I’ve said that, expect both to have monster series). ”

Stick a fork in ’em.

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298 thoughts on “Rangers 5, Senators 6 (2OT)”

  1. There is no excuses. None.
    Hank is to blame for this loss, he was fighting it all game.
    Followed by AV. Up 5-3 he decided to play not to lose this game. OT- same story.
    And, of course the players didn’t execute.

    Liked by 3 people

  2. AV played “not to lose” — didn’t he have four forwards on the power play in third period with a two goal lead, ilb? 😉

    Awful game by the entire team, and Lundqvist was the worst.

    Choke job?

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Repost:

    No doubt Hank is a Hall of Famer, and whose jersey will rightfully hang from the MSG rafters, even if doesn’t play another minute of hockey from now on.

    But, he is the most important Ranger. He is the face of the franchise. Letting up 2 deflected goals in under 3 minutes at the end of a game squandering a 2 goal lead in the playoffs is not acceptable.

    There are many other players and coach who have some explaining to do. But the fact is, Lundqvist was handed a two goal lead with 3 minutes and change left and he blew it.

    This was not Crosby, Malkin, Toews, nor Ovechkin. This was not McDavid nor Matthews. This was not even Tavares. This was… Pageau.

    Shame on the Rangers for not taking control of the last 5 minutes. Double shame on the franchise goalie for not stopping the puck.

    Pageau.

    Rhymes with Matteau, right?

    At least Brodeur went on to win 3 Stanley Cups after Matteau, and played until he was 42 years old.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Pageau will now live as a sore in Ranger fans’ memory along with guys like Ken Morrow and John Druce. One hit wonders who had NHL career defining games in the playoffs against the Rangers.

    (At least Morrow won a gold medal.)

    Like

  5. ILB

    I questioned AV’s benching of Lindbergh during the game yesterday.

    Atrocious decision. Especially a defensive player like Lindbergh.

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  6. But how is benching Lindbergh playing not to lose? Lindbergh is a defensive player so should’ve been playing more minutes.

    Why shorten your bench when the hallmark advantage of your team is its depth of personnel??

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  7. from blushirtbanter…………………………….

    “Once again, Brady Skjei and Brendan Smith found themselves stapled to the bench with five minutes remaining in the third and the Rangers protecting a lead. Sound familiar? That’s because it’s EXACTLY THE SAME THING that burned the Rangers against Montreal. What happened? EXACTLY THE SAME THING. Skjei (who had two goals and was easily the Rangers best defenseman) didn’t even see 18 minutes in a double overtime game. Smith – Skjei was easily Vigneault’s best pairing, and they got the least amount of time of any defenseman at evens.”

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Thing is, I believe Montral is a better team than Ottawa. But the Rangers haven’t play nowhere near their level of play similar to what they played in games 4-5-6.

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  9. I was disgusted and didn’t watch post game. Did anyone ask AV about his decisions to not play Lindberg or Skeij and Smith down the stretch? Holdem was horrible. He was on with Skeij was the second goal and id nothing to help and made the bad pinch that led to the odd man rush that ended the game. With a two goal lead in the third why not roll four lines and three pairs of D? I think he might have seen how bad a day Hank was having and thought they needed to score more to win. I was surprised when he had hour forwards out n the PP near the end. They had enough goals to win.

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  10. So Hank singlehandedly lost that game? Give me a break. There was blame to go around. Yes we expect him to be far better than he was yesterday. In fact we expect him to carry the team like he did against the Habs and when he doesn’t he is crucified. Hank wasn’t good, his defensemen weren’t good, AV’s deployment wasn’t good, and Ottawa had a little bit more luck than the Rangers. But yeah, it’s all on Hank…

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  11. Everything about this series sucks. Ottawa sucks. The love affair with Karlsson sucks. Doucher’s underdog card suck. The refs always being in the way sucks. Lundqvist being outplayed sucks. AV’s decision making sucks. Hayes, Miller, Kreider, Stepan suck. We suck.

    Liked by 4 people

  12. looks to me like we lose 1 of these 4 in expansion. any will be a loss. I certainly don’t want it to be grabner but I think he’s the one vegas takes.

    grabner
    raanta
    lindberg
    fast

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  13. would anyone trade a number 1 pick to vegas to get them to take staal (4 yrs left) or girardi (3 yrs left) if we can get one of those to waive no move.

    i would. the cap room is that important. but not if it’s for shattenkirk.

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  14. from previous thread

    Nick Cotsonika‏Verified account @cotsonika

    Shattenkirk, the big deadline acquisition, got beat on winning goal in Game 1, got beat on SHG tonight, took delay penalty that led to PPG.

    Like

  15. I cant think of a reason for benching Lindberg. Unacceptable.

    I like AV and think he’s a good coach but we have no business not winning this series. If we get swept or are out in 5… it may be time to cut the cord.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. None of this AV chat is happening (I guess he coached well for the 5 Rangers goals?) if the D and the goalie do their jobs. Hank gave up 2 softies, the first and then hurling self backwards to the ice on the shot off the boards for the third, and you’d like to see him make the big save in OT. And McD and Girardi coughed it up at 5-3, not Lundqvist. So, what, fire AV because he had McD, Girardi and Hank out there, three guys who have had great playoffs so far? This one was on the players.

    Liked by 2 people

  17. Norm I agree with most of what you said. Lots of blame goes to the players, especially Hank, Mac, and G, who didn’t get it done with 4 minutes to go. But AV is not blameless here and I am of the camp that believes he is generally a terrific coach. His deployment of Holden and Staal is mind boggling and not giving Skjei and Smith giant minutes in the 3rd and OT is difficult to understand. I also don’t understand stapling Lindbergh to the bench although I do understand not using Buch a lot. Bottom line is they gave away a game they should have won and put themselves into a big crater. They all need to be better including the Coach.

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  18. Sit too

    Bottom line, is as bad as AV and his players were, they still weren’t bad enough to actually enjoy a 2 GOAL LEAD with THREE MINUTES left in a playoff game.

    Lundqvist is the highest paid player. It is Lundqvist’s name on the marquee. It is Lundqvist who remains this team’s greatest strength and thus most important player.

    It was Lundqvist who ultimately lost this game.

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  19. Lundqvist was awful, and I think directly to blame for two goals, and shaky all day long. The blame is definitely on him.

    But he sure can’t play in the offensive zone those last three minutes of regulation, and he sure can’t make that pinch in double-OT, can he?

    He can’t pile onto the lead on the power play either. He can’t get inside the heads of Miller and Hayes and shake out the cobwebs.

    If Lundqvist isn’t miles better, though, they have zero chance.

    2-2 after 4.

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  20. You’re right CArp — they could’ve been spending more time in the offensive zone late in the game, and could’ve scored on the pp (heck, I even questioned AV for using 4 forwards with a 2 goal lead)…

    But, ultimately, this loss lands on the ample shoulders of the King.

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  21. Norm – he played a shaky game from start to finish, and shouldve “found a way” to stop either of the two goals. He failed to rise to occasion when it really counted late in that game. And probably would’ve been moot if he had played better the rest of the game.

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  22. Tarik El-Bashir‏Verified account @TarikCSN

    Trotz on Shattenkirk: “That’s not good enough for what we need in that third pairing right now. Minus-7 is hard to recover from.”

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  23. “Skjei was easily Vigneault’s best pairing, and they got the least amount of time of any defenseman at evens.”

    And that concludes our lesson in Outsmarting Yourself 101.

    Liked by 2 people

  24. Alex – You don’t necessarily need to lose one of those 4. Rangers should trade Stephen, before NMC kicks in, for a top prospect that is not eligible, same could be said for Hayes, however, you won’t get a top prospect for him so trade for draft pick(maybe 2nd round if lucky). I would also consider trading Kreider if you could get a very good return for him. He has loads of talent and can be a beast when he wants to be, but his inconsistency and lack of hockey IQ hurt his value.

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  25. What way should Lundqvist have found, Admiral, to stop those tipped shots? No question he was bad in the game generally and gave up other bad goals, but those two, really?

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  26. Riddle me this…Is the ice in Ottawa that crappy?

    Someone here mentioned after Game 1 they though the ice was crappy. I could be wrong, but yesterday seemed to me that players were falling a bunch and puck was bouncing all over the place. In comparison, I watched the end of the CapsPens and the puck seemed to lay flat and passes were crisp and clean. Bad ice or bad teams (or a little of both)?

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  27. Skeij scored two goals — benched

    Pageau (12 regular season goals in 82 games) — plays (and scores 4 goals in one playoff game)

    Advantage: SCARFACE

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  28. Sittoo, if AV blew the OT, fair enough, didn’t see it, and I think playing Skjei is always a good idea. But he didn’t blow the lead is the point I’ve been trying to make.

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  29. Norm. I’m not a goalie, so I can’t pretend to say how they should’ve been stopped. But as a professional athlete, paid game-breaking money, he needed to make 2 more saves than he did yesterday.

    He didn’t, so they lost.

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  30. so, MKH, you’re on board for a full rebuild?

    I respectfully call B.S. on anybody who says he’d be on board for a rebuild. And I also think they’re way closer to the top than the bottom with the players they have and it would be absurd to blow it up. Respectfully.

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  31. IMO – though Hank didn’t play well, this loss is more on AV. His personnel choices were awful. If you decide to play “not to lose” by defending instead of having puck at other end of the ice, then how do you justify having Hayes on the ice for last minute. How do you justify giving Hayes any ice time based on his play over the last 30 games, no less these 8 playoff games. Sadly, Lindbergh has probably been their most consistent and best center so far so he should not have been given on 5 minutes of ice time. There is not justification for benching Smith and giving Holden that many minutes. Just awful coaching.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Carp, not complete rebuild but I would look to move those three players that may get you a decent return and provide cap relief. IMO, as currently structured, they do not have the talent to win a cup. Generally, teams that win a cup have a top line center(Crosby, Kopitar, etc) which the Rangers do not. They also usually have a finisher who can consistently put the puck in the net and they don’t have anyone who fits that bill either. With a trade for top prospect and cap relief for possible FA signing maybe those needs can be addressed. Stephen needs to go because of NMC kicking in. Kreider and Hayes are way too inconsistent, often lack consistent hustle and have little hockey IQ. Bottom line is this team is a few years away no matter what. Buchnevich, Vesey and Skeji need a year or two to build their game.

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  33. Admiral when the Rangers win it is not solely because of Henrik. When the Rangers lose it is not solely because of Henrik. I am on record here agreeing that he played poorly yesterday and there were in fact 2 and possibly 3 goals that he “should” have stopped. Goals 4 and 5 weren’t among them. Those were 2 terrific deflections by Pageau, who was totally undefended by Mac or G, 5 to 10 feet in front of Hank. Call him out on the 1st and the last if you will, but not on those. And every once in a while, when their goalie is having a shaky night, his teammates need to come to his rescue…

    Liked by 1 person

  34. If LQ had stopped even 1 of those 2 and possibly 3 that he should have stopped, goals 4 and 5 would have been goals 3 and 4 and the Rangers would win in regulation 5-4.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Carp, some odd reason, wordpress reverts to an unauthorized alias whenever I restart computer. Not trying to hide. 🙂

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  36. The fact is Olga we were winning 5-3 with 4 minutes to go despite Hank’s shaky game. He was not the sole reason why the Sens tied it up. In fact, I don’t think he had much of a shot at stopping either of those deflections although it sure would have been great if he had. That’s why I say this loss is not solely on him. He is an easy target because, well, 6 goals against is 3 too many. But blame, like glory, needs to be shared when you play a team sport.

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  37. I agree sitoo that it’s not solely on LQ. But one stoppable goal stopped would be a Ranger win. If instead of 3 stars, there were 3 goats, LQ would get first goat.

    Liked by 2 people

  38. Stoppable goals happen in almost every game except for shutouts. You can’t just say that is the reason for the loss. But I agree Hank was the goat last night. Hoping he becomes the GOAT on Tuesday.

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  39. With any goalie a mistake on a stoppable shot is a certain goal. A mistake by a forward or defenseman does not necessarily end up in the net. A good goalie is supposed to neutralize those mistakes, not make two or three of his own. He is held to a higher standard. That’s why the goalie gets “the win”. (Or loss).

    Liked by 3 people

  40. No reason to give up on this team …. they have done it before…Sens have gotten bounces so far. No way PUempel plays but think We will see Glass back in

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  41. The loss is on Hank. Call him the goat or not.

    Despite the poor play by him and his teammates, he still had a 2 goal lead with three minutes and just couldn’t find that extra save.

    I sound like a broken record, but this loss is on Hank.

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  42. And I sound like a broken record too. This loss was on the team. Unless you want to say Hank was the only reason we beat the Habs…

    Liked by 1 person

  43. Sit too

    Yeah sure, the Rangers team lost the game, as well as won the last series. But in my opinion, there was no Ranger more responsible for beating Montreal; and no Ranger more responsible for blowing the game last night.

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  44. Olga imo you are putting way too much emphasis on the importance of the goalie in wins and losses. Of course you need good goaltending to consistently win games. Hank’s career is a testament to that. But saying that a goalie can’t afford to make a mistake because it is a certain goal is way off the mark. Goals get scored in almost every game. Some are lucky, some are great plays or shots, and some are due to the mistakes of the human beings under all that gear. Hank made some mistakes last night and the team did too. The combination resulted in the loss. And I am not trying to absolve Hank here. He wasn’t good. I just don’t think he is the only reason the team lost and I really dislike the narrative that some people push regarding him, his salary, etc.

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  45. I posted it before and I’ll post it again-

    I’m more optimistic now than I was in the first round. If there’s one thing we know about this team, it’s that they are wildly inconsistent from game to game. There’s a good chance that a totally different team will show up for the next game. You just never know with these guys.

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  46. Ted Bundy was pretty.

    Rangers will win this series. Believe and it will happen. Rangers barely lost games’ 1 and 2 and they, along with game 3 vs Habs, rank as the worst of their postseason.

    Rangers in 6 going away.

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  47. sittoo, that’s why I restricted it to “stoppable” shots. I know that there are other goals made in a game. Some days a goalie can get away with a mistake on a stoppable shot. But not yesterday. It was not the only reason. But it was a major reason. When your team gives you 5 goals, you should be able to keep out more that 6.

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  48. Losing is boring. We have nothing more to talk about than argue about how we all think Lumdqvist was to blame for game 2 loss, even though his team stunk yet still scored 5 goals.

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  49. Everybody want to see the game on Tuesday. Everybody want a friend. What we need, what we need…….is soludarity.

    Soludarity. Soludarity. Uh/huh

    Liked by 1 person

  50. Big Game Glass is ready for the big stage. Next game we play turn the page. Hank and Nash will earn their wage. Stepan’s bald head is colored beige.

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  51. Murphy’s Law-This summer we’ll trade Holden. The first half of the season, it will appear that we totally got the best of the deal. Then we’ll face him in the playoffs next year and he’ll be tear us apart.

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  52. Willing to bet a lot on that one.
    Blaze has had one game where he did anything to remember. Big waste of talent

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  53. I don’t understand the thought of replacing Buch with Glass. TG’s game isn’t what’s been missing in the first two games. I wouldn’t change the lineup, but I sure would change the minutes that some people got. Skjei was having a playoff game to brag about and he gets sent to the bench. That doesn’t make sense to me.

    Liked by 3 people

  54. no to shattenkirk

    Rick Carpiniello‏ @RickCarpiniello

    Shattenkirk-Orpik make Staal-Holden look like Robinson-Savard. … of course, they’re playing against PIT’s third line, not J-G Pageau.

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  55. Carp – do you believe that this team has enough talent up front to win a cup within next 3 years, as it currently constructed and given the dearth of talent in Hartford?

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  56. Sometimes I feel these loses hurt the fans more so than the players. Us fans invest a lot of time, money and emotion into cheering on a team. For a player, they get to do what they love day in and day out and most get a humongous ol’ fat paycheck win or lose! So after playing crappy for less than 30 minutes, they only need to look at their bank account and it’ll turn any frown upside down! 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  57. Wow, lots of comments. On last couple of threads.

    I do think they can still win the series. The thing is when they forechecked, played in the sens face, held offencive zone time, they were in control. They stopped being assertive, Sens come back…ebbs and flows of a playoff game.

    The thing is, two of my biggest concerns going in to the playoffs with this team were intangibles and coaching. In the first round the coaching was good imho. The intangibles (timely saves, important draw wins, etc) were in the rangers favour for the most part. I don’t think either went the rangers way in game two and at the end of game one.

    AV seemed to adjust well against mtl after games 2 and 3 of that series, especially not having Stepan take vital draws and avoiding the staal/Holden pair in critical situations. He’s been not so good this series with his decisions regarding draws (lindberg over 50% on draws but gets 5 minutes) and ice time for skjeL and smith (probably their best “pair” in the game) being limited. He’s been the inferior coach in this series.

    Stampan regressed again in game two defencively. For a player, who many say is so good defencively (I think he’s very overrated defencively), he seems to make poor reads, loses his man, is too far behind his man on the backcheck…a lot. On 2 of the sens goals yesterday his man is the guy that scored and stampan was too far behind his guy in “coverage”.

    Hank let in 2 goals that shouldn’t have went in (timely saves not happening).

    I think the extra day off benefits the sens (a certain fractured heel in particular).

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Re the offseans…
    I trade Stepan in a hockey deal before his clause kicks in (for a forward)
    I trade Nash to a team (not on his list) for a D upgrade (I include Klein in the deal because he’s clearly done here).
    I ask staal and Girardi to waive their ntc’s. If they do, I leave them both exposed. If neither gets claimed, I buy out staal if I can’t trade him.

    I protect mcdonut, smith (who I re-sign), and the acquired D

    I protect miller, kreider, z pack, Lindberg, zucc, Hayes, acquired fwd.

    Liked by 2 people

  59. I think this goes down one of two ways- The inconsistent mess which is this team will come roaring back now that their back is against a wall. Puck luck shifts in the other direction sometimes and that can play a roll in it… or they will simply roll over and implode as they did in game 5 against Pittsburgh last year. I’m going to have some confidence in them and say this series is 2-2 going back to Ottawa next weekend. If not I guess we’ll be talking about trying to acquire Kovalchuk for Stepan and buying out Staal so we can sign Shatty a week from today..

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  60. buying out staal saves very little. better off seeing if either staal or girardi will wave nmc and then get vegas to take 1 while giving vegas a number 1 pick for that.

    staal buyout savings or (cost) over 8 yrs before any replacement and their cost is accounted for.

    3.6
    3.6
    2.6
    2.6
    (1.4)
    (1.4)
    (1.4)
    (1.4)

    there is no go away or get out of jail free card with these buyouts.

    signing shattenkirk is a huge mistake that i hope somebody else makes not us. that would be a true albatross contract and would guarantee no cup for the life of that deal.

    if shattenkirk signs for 7 mm per year only half comes from staal buyout. shattenkirk is a very expensive 3rd pair d and power play specialist.

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  61. Here’s one of those “dynamic of the team” questions..If year after year the guys who are so valuable to this team- the Zuccs and Kreiders and Stepans etc are consistent at inconsistency and cannot get it done in the post season, when do you start making some hockey trades to find the missing elements? Not a rebuild. Just finding a new core by subtracting some of the old core..????

    Liked by 2 people

  62. James
    That’s what I’ve been saying
    Alex
    I agree, buyouts not the best situation at all, but imo it’s better than nothing with one of them (staal would be my choice)…as a last resort (after ntc avenue is explored).

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  63. Subtracting one of G or Staal isn’t going to change very much. If you take one of those two guys out of the equation and replace them with a dman of your preference- what is the playoff record right now instead of 4-4? They’re certainly not 6-0. Are they 6-2? 5-3? This is a whole team problem. This is a too many passengers in the most important time of the year problem. There’s two things that could have changed the result from yesterday. First, is Pageau not playing…the second is Hank having a solid game. That’s about it. If PK Subban or WWEber or Drew Doughty was playing for us in place of Staal or Girardi we probably still lose 6-5 with all else equal.

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  64. Sorry Wick, just too much to catch up on. I know it’s going to get taken as a “tear it down” comment but it’s not. it’s about retooling.

    Liked by 1 person

  65. Gorton to other GMs: “OK, here’s what we have available.
    Stepan because he has a nmc coming up and he isn’t as good as we thought he was
    Nash because he has such a high cap number and he doesn’t perform in the playoffs
    Staal and Girardi because of their high pay and they are both done
    Klein and Holden because they stink
    So, what top line player are you going to give me for one of these guys?

    Liked by 3 people

  66. Cross check
    I get what you are saying but that’s a bit…overboard (respectfully).
    Stepan isn’t a throw away player, you can make a trade with another team for him and get a Tix 6 fwd back.

    I didn’t say deal Nash (and Klein) for karllson or burns, but you can get a younger better than average D man for him/them imo.

    A lot of spitballing and it was just a hypothetical.

    Lest we forget we have a first round pick this year at the lower end of the first round that I would certainly throw in to a deal to make it go forward if needed.

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  67. I just do stuff like that because I hear it from many people about their favorite team in all sports. Player X sucks so trade him.

    In order to trade a guy, somebody has to want him. If you’re going to get rid of a Klein or Holden what are you going to get in return? You’ll get another Klein or Holden.

    The team needs to quit trading first round draft choices and be able to develop the people they do draft. The most impressive young player on the team is Skjei – a first round pick. They don’t need to tank to get a #1 pick, but continually trading for other team’s castoffs hasn’t worked for the last 20 years.

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  68. The Ledge is full and bitter today! @Olga spot on with her comments about ShampooBoy. As to the raving ones at blueshirtbanter, clearly they totally forgot the game Skjei had the night before and some of the late penalties Smith has taken. So do I understand why AV might not have wanted them out there a lot late? Yes. That said, I would have at least tried to play them more earlier to have the other two pairs fresher late. What puzzles me far more is the lack of use of Machine – even if you take Buch out and start juggling, still think he has to get good minutes.

    I said to a friend today, and its a bit politically incorrect (apologies in advance) … but being a NYR fan (and I have for decades) is like being the wife that gets beat on by her abusive husband but never leaves or calls the cops. Granted, ours is only psychological abuse, but damn if I don’t check some mornings for bruises after watching these games.

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  69. it really doesn’t matter, pens are going to win the cup again so in a way I’m glad rangers won’t be advancing just to see them lose to the pens. Predators haven’t lost a game yet in the playoffs, impressive.

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  70. Took a little ten-mile hike up to Green Lake near Mt. Ranier, to get away from it all–work, bills, hockey. And there it was, a little spur off the trail that led the wife and me to, wait for it… Ranger Falls. At least it was beautiful, but there’s no escape.

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  71. James – have to disagree on the D. Girardi and Staal have regressed as their TOI has increased. They are much better in period 1 and wear down as the game goes on as the opponent is focused on dumping it in their side and press the break out. By the 3rd period they are ripe for taking.
    .
    Imagine if McD had a top 4 let alone top 2 talent next to him? Guy is doing yoeman’s work out there. Smith should have been out there on Staal’s right side at a minimum. AV spit the bit on that one.

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  72. What everyone scratching their heads about? Rangers took this series too lightly. Against Montreal they knew to get past their goalie. They thought this one was easy. Well it wasn’t. Hey woke up too late. They gotta take the next two and everything will be sound and sweet. Trust me. I know sports. Not like half of you guys here. Don’t know nothing about anything. Me? Im a big fan huge!

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  73. I also think Staal has been 10x the player his anchor partner has been in this series. Played the GWG 2-on-1 great, hasn’t made the defensive gaffes that McDonagh, Girardi, Holden or Skjei made yesterday. Was a beast vs. Montreal. But I know … the narrative.

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  74. I don’t know about this staal dude. But defense needs to be better. When they gonna give my boy Ramaat a start already. Henry looks tired.

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  75. Jettison Staal! Desperately try to fool someone in a trade if you can perpetrate a trade that suits him (close to Thunder Bay?) Toast. And he’s not the only one, just the one that most of us don’t realize is dragging us down and getting worse.

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  76. I don’t dislike Staal’s play so much as I am saddened by the reality that there are maybe a dozen good and dependable defensemen in the league who actually know how to play defense and enjoy doing it. Staal just happens to be here and imo, gets too much praise for too little production either end of the rink.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. I really believe we are expecting too much from this NYR young core. The problem as I see it is this. There is actually nothing wrong with Miller and Haze they are good 3rd liners nothing more. We on the other hand are expecting them to be more. Stepan is at best a #2C but really closer to another 3rd liner. Kreider a 2nd line winger at best will never be anything more. The jury is out on VC & Buch but probably they will never be more then 2nd liners at best. Lindberg & Fast good 4th liners. Zika at best #2C. Outside of McDonagh and Skjei the D is a mess. My point, no elite top line talent zero, get it zero. Until the Rangers add that type of skill this team will always be just what we see playoff after playoff just not good enough. You know I’m right! Gorton has his work cut out for him, not sure there is much he can do.

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  78. But your point is good. This team lacks front-line skill. Has for a long time. Which means they’ve done well to extract the success they have the last five, six years. I think they can still get back in this series, but I never thought this group could win a Cup this year. Never thought it was the best team in the whole league. But it’s been a top-five team or a bunch of years.

    Even though the coach is an idiot, the goalie stinks, and everybody else should be bought out or traded, except St. Zucc … who never hears a discouraging word, as invisible as he’s been too.

    Liked by 1 person

  79. Wow. This Oilers Ducks game looks a bit like the Rangers game yesterday. Wonder if any Oilers fans are gonna wake up tomorrow saying “we should have gone after the King.” #hottakes

    Like

  80. I agree Carp can’t trade everybody not suggesting that. And this team is good no doubt, just not good enough. Sooner or later they are going to have to hit rock bottom to aquire that elite talent or it’s more of the same year after year!

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  81. Dont worry about top talent… once caps are eliminated in the second round once again, Ovechkin will be available. We will trade for him in the offseason.

    Liked by 1 person

  82. i have to say SN and cooscos are the guys most on staal every second of the day. not a compliment to either and their hockey acumen

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  83. actually nobody is saying staal is this and that cooscoos. just tired of the incessant criticism from you and the other guy with the silly nicknames for girardi and staal.

    i would gladly let any of our 5 mm plus guys leave if there wasn’t a huge buyout attached. but that’s not the reality.

    Like

  84. So why isn’t any you’s up in arms about of all things, New Jersey and Philadelphia both winning the lotto thing

    Like

  85. Funny how Ray Shero goes to free falling Pens and wins top draft picks… even funnier, he goes to free falling NJD and AGAIN gets a top pick! I smell something very fishy here…

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  86. The Wrath of Alex: starring SN and Kooz. In this episode we learn that Alex doesn’t like silly nicknames, silly love sounds, or silly putty.

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  87. Cccp im tellin ya it’s rigged. League comishoner was that Knicks fan who got blasted by James Dolan. That’s who owns the Knicks and the rangers.

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  88. Carp brings up an interesting point…I wonder if I let anyone off the hook. I don’t think I do, but you guys might notice it if I don’t.

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  89. Carp (and others)
    I think the big problem with people and “being all over some players” is the cap hit of those players (not always, but a lot of times).

    Speaking for myself, I want a more rounded player (talking skaters here, not goalies) or a complete stud in a “hard” cap league. For his $$$$, staal doesn’t fit into either category. Neither does Stepan.

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  90. You got it all wrong wicky. You gotta think like Michael Lewis. He had vision. You’re just acting like a snowflake.

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  91. Love the way both the ducks and oilers play.
    2 of my favourite former rangers on the oilers though, rooting for whichever of those teams in the west.

    Like

  92. i think Holden’s gaffs are more obvious but he does a much better job playing the body and making the outlet pass. Loses his man in the zone and makes very questionable decisions when provided any time and space to use his brain it seems. Makes some real boneheaded plays.
    .
    Staal is just a stride or two slower now so he needs to make up for that by cheating on angles and allowing his man to get outside of him. He has trouble retrieving and/or digging the puck off the wall and, if he does get the puck, making good outlet passes which often leads to extended forays in the D-zone. He also provides zero offense, as in nothing. In 8 games he has no points and 8 SOGs. In the team’s 4 losses he is -4.
    .
    I hear he is an accomplished Shuffleboarder…

    Liked by 1 person

  93. Miller needs to pick it up but the talent is there and wouldn’t call him or Hayes third liners….they said lots of teams asked about Miller at deadline. Expect them and Vecey to just get better

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  94. Stepan isn’t going anywhere, sadly. He’s slow, refuses to engage physically, horrible on the dot, and bloated salary. That said, he’ll be a great PR man once he hangs up those race car like skates. Quotes like “we have to keep up the physicality yet not lose sight of our speed game.” This from a guy that’d lose to Milan Lucic in a race and get beat up by Petr Nedved in a fight.

    Liked by 2 people

  95. Accomplished shuffleboarder 🙂

    I think he actually has taken the body around the goal quite well in these playoffs. Holden does make a much better outlet. Holden also does some horrendous things around the net, plus I heard he made a questionable pinch in Game 2 2OT.

    Trying to remember, which game did Staal have that atrocious shift where he chased the guy around the net after a turnover, allowing a goal? Vs. Montreal maybe? Or was it Game 1 vs. OTT?

    Liked by 1 person

  96. Carp
    He’d be in the top 4 perhaps based on ability, but they wouldn’t want him in their top “4” for that cap hit.

    Like

  97. Rangers need to play with the desperation that Ducks showed tonite. That had that look in their eye from the get go.

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  98. Carp
    When D man makes a pinch, centre is supposed to take the “pincher’s” d zone responsibility….Stepan failed to do so.

    The staal “event” was vs mtl

    The rangers can’t afford elite talent because they pay their above average to average talent too much.

    Liked by 1 person

  99. My favorite Staal shift was his first one in Game 6 v Habs when he decked Gallagher from behind into the the wall 2 or 3 times. he just doesn’t seem to have any giddyup (technical term).
    Rarely takes penalties and mostly stays on his skates. You wonder with the right partner for him and McD how this D could play.
    .
    BTW – David Poille of the Preds is unbelievable. They had limited top line offensive talent and look at that roster now. Amazing work making trades (and drafting) to help both O and D.

    Liked by 1 person

  100. there is not a player on the team making over $ 5 million deserving of the cap hit.

    Grabner is an exception but guys later in their career are usually overpaid and guys very early in career like Skjei are underpaid. It’s the way the system is set up.

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  101. 1am? Haha. Just call in now. There’s not gonna be a long wait. I call in now and I always get through.

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  102. Carp
    For discussion purposes, staal has the 22nd highest cap hit for a d man in the league. Is he the 22nd best d man in the league? If you say he is a #2 d man then shouldn’t his cap hit be in the 32+ ranking? A #3 d man on teams…$$$$ should be ranked around 64+ etc. My point is, he isn’t worth his contract. He’s paid like a #1 and he performs like a #3 or 4.

    Not a perfect example, but I think it gets the point across….I think

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  103. Lori Rubinson does the Sunday show and she talks hockey sometimes.

    Wick, I think I might have mentioned this a few times. I’m not arguing his contract or defending it.

    And I certainly am not saying he’s a top-pair. But he’s a second-pair. You can call him a 3 or 4, though I’m not sure there’s a difference.

    If you ask his GM, his coach, his teammates (or me), he’s probably the clear-cut third best defenseman on the team, with Beat Wide gaining on him fast.

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  104. Carp I will admit to having a slight chuckle over Cam having an even worse save percentage than Hank did last night. That being said, I really hope he and Edmonton prevail because (unlike some others who will remain nameless) I actually root for both of them. If and when the Oilers and Rangers ever square off in the SCF, I will hope Cam does well and Hank does better…

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  105. First
    I don’t think he is a junk goalie. After the bettman lost season, hank got this team back to the playoffs on a consistent basis. Much credit to him.

    All that said, I would pay ANY goalie that kind of money. I don’t think in a hard cap world, you can make your highest paid player a guy that doesn’t even play every game. What terrible $$$ management, invest the most in a guy that will play only 75% of your games (not talking injuries, no goalie plays 82…at least I don’t think so).

    Dreger reported last week that there is a growing school of thought with NHL GMs that it isn’t necessary to have the best goalie, just the one that makes the timely save or that peaks at the right time. A lot of gms reference the Stanley Cup winning goalie in the past 6-8 certainly haven’t been the “best” in the league or highest paid.

    Liked by 1 person

  106. Alex, Hank deserves every dime of his cap hit. Best player for over a decade on the team and the best or top 3 goalie in the league for almost the same amount of time. That type of performance = $$$ and rightfully so.

    Liked by 1 person

  107. Carp
    I don’t think we disagree (shocking), just trying to eloquently state (for general population consumption) why I opine the way I do.

    If staal is third best D man, who is second?

    Like

  108. The Lundqvist salary isn’t as bad as the length. He was already making $6.5M. There’s no way he wasn’t going to get $8+ … The Rangers couldn’t do jack squat with the difference between $7+ and $8+ … couldn’t get Viktor Stalberg for that.

    Price will get that much from Montreal this summer. Rinne, what’s he getting? Others will follow. Lundqvist was just the first and most deserving.

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  109. Highest paid goalie in the league that has won a cup (unless I missed someone) is Crawford with a cap hit of 6 mil per.

    Difference between 8.5 mil and 6.5 mil is two mil plus stalberg at 1.1 mil now improves your stalberg 1.1 mil to 3.1 mil which now gets you a kuznetzov or Boone Jenner level player. It makes a difference.

    Liked by 1 person

  110. Yeah, but you couldn’t sign him for close to $6.5, just as Montreal isn’t going to get Price for close to $6.5.

    So say Lundqvist took a discount, for $7.5M per (why would he? I wouldn’t, you wouldn’t). That $1M isn’t getting you Boone Jenner or Caitlyn Jenner. It’s getting you Adam Clendening.

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  111. Sitting Lindberg was as egregious as Smith not playing. AV said he was basically benching the young players – Oscar, Butch, and Shea.

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  112. Corey Crawford is not the best player on his team. Kane, Toews, and Keith are all above him in the contract pecking order. Who on the Rangers deserves to be above Hank?

    Liked by 1 person

  113. Again, don’t disagree re discount. I move on from him for that money. Not right or wrong, just the philosophy I’d use in if I was building a cup winner.

    Roy or fatso probably last “top 3” goalie to win cup and neither in hard cap era. In cap era, top 3 goalie not required to win cup. Can’t dedicate “highest cap hit” to player who doesn’t play every game, just can’t do it in cap era. Need above average goalie, can’t be your highest paid player, shouldn’t pay more than around 6 mil per imo.

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  114. BTW, there are some position players whose contracts are worse than Lundqvist’s no matter how good they are or what they’ve won. Kopitar four more years at $10M per cap hit. Subban five more for $9M per. WWEber four more at $7.86M per cap hit (though I thought he had a lot longer than that left, for some reason).

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  115. Sittoo and carp
    I’m not saying someone deserves to make more than hank, I’m saying I don’t pay ANY goalie that much, I don’t care who he is.

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  116. Wick, in case you’re forgetting, they were building toward a Cup and therefore couldn’t dump him. They don’t get a sniff at those playoff runs without him. And there was no way to keep him for less. I think it’s pretty convenient to forget the circumstances. They had no choice, and didn’t want to make any other choice, and it was the only and correct thing to do.

    Fans would have burned down MSG if they let him walk in 2013 and started over when they had a team that was close … and when they had just spent much, much more and worse money on Richards.

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  117. When we talk about “best” player on the team, are we talking consistency? Potential? Past performances? Career?

    Depending on the criteria “we” are using, I’m not so sure the “best” player on this team is hank.

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  118. Got it Wicky. I disagree but understand your philosophy. I think with Hank there was also a desire to keep that very popular (and very handsome) “face of the franchise” in the Big Apple. It suited the suits as much as it did the King to pay him enough to keep him playing in “the world’s most famous arena.”

    Liked by 1 person

  119. Wicky I’m certainly not saying Hank was the best player on the team this year. That accolade goes to Mac. I’m saying that when he signed his very lucrative contract he was by far and away the best player on this team and the best goalie in the league.

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  120. Wicky

    come playoff time the number 1 generally plays every game.

    they also play 60 minutes in games they do play in highly pressured position. others play 18 (forwards) or maybe 25 minutes for really top end d.

    I’m still not happy with henriks deal both in $ and term.

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  121. Carp
    I’m not forgetting…it’s all revisionist history really, but I’m not sure they don’t make a “run”. Pretty tough to say to be honest. Who knows who they might “acquire” via trade if they had 4 mil invested in an above avg goalie and an extra 4 mil in cap space.

    It’s a moot point, he is here and we don’t know how the “landscape” may have changed had he been dealt or walked.

    Again, not how I would build a team (cup winning goalies since lockout prove this theory so far) but admittingly many more variables involved. Also why I’m not an NHL gm.

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  122. Alex
    Correct re playoffs….hank (imo) is a better goalie than every goalie that has won a cup since the lockout. But having the best goalie doesn’t get you a cup, skaters more important. More top “skaters” hoist the cup than top goalies (no I don’t mean that there are 21 skaters and 2 goalies normally on a roster;)).

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  123. No one in NYR management would have had the gonads to deny LQ anything monetary within reason or a little above reason. Fans would have exploded like TNT on whomever they deigned the culprit.

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  124. Either we have the dumbest coaches in the NHL or the dumbest players who never learn the basics and continue to reinforce bad habits. JT, Haze, and THE should by now be scary. Starting to look like it will be good and bad on and on, year after year, with none of them breaking through to excellence.

    Liked by 1 person

  125. Where has McMonster Jr been this series or Zucc or Nash? Why does JT get the back of the hand?
    Put him with Oscar and Quickie on 4th line and they will outscore all the others 5×5.

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  126. Cooscoos

    most really top end guys were drafted top few picks in draft. Yes exceptions like Karlsson exist. The rangers you mention are not superstars and never will be.

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  127. ‘Oh, honey, boy, I don’t need no superstar, ’cause I’ll accept you as you are…
    You don’t have to be a star, baby, to be in my show…’

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  128. Here’s the revisionist part, or the build-around theory, or whatever … They completely lucked into Lundqvist. Once they realized what they had — potentially the greatest home-grown player in franchise history, then the rest of the argument falls apart. You do what you can to keep him, build around him, and they came pretty close. You don’t say, oh no that’s too much money and toss him away and try to do it another way. That’s silly and the fans — all of youse included — would have gone ape-crap if they had. The other factor was everybody — EVERYBODY — thought the cap would go incrementally up and that none of these contracts — WWEber, Former Future Ranger Parise, Suter, Subban, Kopitar, Callahan — would be as major a problem going forward. They probably felt, and we should have too, that Lundqvist’s number wouldn’t be hamstringing at all in the final years.

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  129. Btw the Rangers have lost both series in the JV era that they had at least one game with a blown 2 goal lead. Hope it turns out differently this time.

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  130. Rangers are a better team than the senators. Hank was due for a bad game as he’s been insane the first 7 this post season. The forwards are slowly waking up and Shay is shooting a nice puck.

    Liked by 1 person

  131. Heyyyy yooooo. I’m like a party animal. I’m just getting home. Cuz I’m for real yo!!! Rangers gonna sweep next 10 games and hoist the biscuit in the cup!

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  132. I believe we will see a different team tomorrow, including more focused Hank. Again, if they play the rest of this series the way they have in games 4-5-6 against Montreal ( or even game 1), they will advance. And what Ottawa does won’t matter. This one is still their series to lose.

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  133. As far as never ending debate about Hank’s contract. His actual raise, in AAV terms, is $1.625M. And yes, they had no choice, and yes, everyone believed the Cap will go up significantly.

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  134. Not a good enough history student to know if this model (best player in the nets, no other stars) has worked before, though I guess mediocre goalies have gotten hot to steal series.

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  135. I don’t think we will see different team tomorrow. They didn’t lose 2 previous games to superior team or some systemic flaws -quite contrary – it SHOULD be won! In the last game, as an example, we saw archetypical Rangers’ show – mostly very dissent playing, underperforming Hank notwithstanding, with unexplainable, occasional collective brainfarts. If by 60 minutes of real concentration, or just some luck, they will avoid it, Rangers have a chance to proceed. Otherwise soul searching, selfblaming and highly competitive golf fights are inevitable. That’s all.

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  136. Morning jackwagons;)
    Thanks for the interesting musings last night all who participated.

    Back to the current series…this series is still very winnable for the rangers imo. Just need to get back to the way they played the last 3 games of mtl series and better coaching décédions.

    I also think this team can beat the pens!

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  137. Carp- I didn’t hear you on FAN last night, so I didn’t hear the mispronunciation of your name. I’m a little embarrassed to say that, until I heard you pronounce your own name, I used to think it was pronounced Carpin-yellow. Kind of like Yemelin. I added a “Y”. Sorry. : )

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  138. If one is familiar with the yearly training volumes of current and past (ultra-)endurance superstars, it's hard to see how 1,000 hours/year of weight bearing, single-activity training isn't copouer-urndtctive to reaching top performances that continue for a good many years. It's another issue altogether if performance improvement is NOT a key motivation behind the 1,000 hours. In that case, meticulous training stats and competition results simply aren't that interesting.

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  139. siden jeg leide leliighet, og da er det ikke like lett å ha husdyr. Men siden jeg nå endelig eier min egen nydelige leilighet, kan jeg gjøre (nesten) som jeg vil! Og DA blir det

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  140. You didn’t have it rigged up correctly then. I guarantee it won’t do circles if you line up the eye with the point of the hook when bringing it through the body….I’ve been throwing these even before I came up with the company and have thrown 50,000 cast at least with them….Thanks!Art Ferguson

    Like

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