Brief Review of NYR on 7/1

The Rangers made two major moves yesterday. The first was widely reported prior to the opening of free agency that we would sign Ondrej Pavelec as Lundqvist’s backup. This was an absolute mistake. He is not an NHL level goaltender. He is barely an AHL level goaltender. Just hate this move.

The second, much larger move was to land Kevin Shattenkirk for only 4 years at 6.65 million. I happen to think he’s a great player, but I certainly understand some thinking that he’s not. It’s a great contract, and Shattenkirk displayed tremendous loyalty to take this deal, as he left up to 22.4 million on the table to sign here, a staggering figure, especially since his whole contract is only 26.6.

Anyway, HAV at it.

471 thoughts on “Brief Review of NYR on 7/1”

  1. Good morning Boneheads! Why Pavelec it makes no sense the guy stinks. Allaire has his work cut out for him, there were better options on the table! And what is a blog bully, is that something Armiel does?

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  3. I’m so loyal that ill wait it out to the last possible moment to make my decision and then take 7 million from the team I always wanted to play for and then make millions more in sponsor deals and bonuses now that i am the second biggest name in Rangers land behind Lundqvist… dream come true!

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  6. After Fowler deal, this is a little easier to swallow.
    Like the player, don’t like the deal. Too much in a RD2/3.
    Forwards are happier with better PP oops and break outs.

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  14. Let’s see… biggest FA signing since Brad Richards. Right handed offensive defenceman pp qb (high in demand NHL commodity, if you ask me), only 28 years old. Yeah… sounds pretty high in the list name.

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  16. I don’t really see the word”loyalty” fitting either, 3c. He’s loaded with cash and he wants to play in front of his family and friends. Nothing wrong with that, and it might make him play better for us with that added pressure.

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  17. @Dave re Staal modified NMC – AFAIK, nobody has any idea what the terms are. It could be a list of teams (number unknown) that he will (or will not) go to, it could be a trade date window or any combination.

    @Eric re 5×5 In effect you are saying that G is still better 5×5 than Admiral Kirk and that his only real benefit will be on the offensive side. Is Kirk an equal or better defender than Smith? If so then we should have kept G on the books for awhile longer and let Smith walk rather than eating all the cap.

    For the Bonehead accountants: As I understand it, players actually pay taxes to some extent to every locality that they play in. But how are the buyouts handled? Do they treat it the same or is G getting hit with 82 games of now non-resident NYS tax?

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  20. I don’t get Pavelec. Either they see something untapped in him, or they want to seriously put the powers of the Goalie Whisperer to work.

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  21. The two “viable” goalie options signed for less than Pav:

    Darcy Kuemper posted a 3.13 GAA and .902 percentage playing behind a defense so deep, the league wanted to steal pieces of if before expansion. Prior to that, 3 years of part-time duty with averages hovering around 2.45 and .910

    Antii Niemi – half a season at 3.30 and .892. Those are some Grant Fuhr numbers, minus 35 extra wins and a Vezina nom. The season before was 2.67 and a .905, so a downwards trend established.

    Pavelec – 3.55 and .888 last season (woof) but in 8 games. 2.78 and .904 the year before.

    Well – I started this post thinking I’d show y’all something about the two cheaper guys that would make you feel better about Pavelec. And wound up convincing myself that they would’ve been better served going after either of the other two. Three dogs. Maybe Allaire looked at the three and said Pavelec was the only one he could save?

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  23. I’m In the wait and see camp on Shatennkirk. If you include him as part of the Stepan trade, you feel okay about it . My problem with him is, he is not a good defender. No doubt he will help the PP, but is he a good enough defender to play with McD against the top lines.

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  24. Both Donuts and Shatty are exceptional O talents for defensemen. I don’t like them as partners, forcing one of them to lay back instead of attacking. Each deserves a defensive defenseman as a partner.

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  26. BDL, the thing of it is they weren’t getting Trouba or Dougie Hamilton or some 23 year old that could be considered a step above Shattenkirk. So for the money and term this was their best option. He’s going to be an upgrade defensively over Klein or G on that top pair and he’s a top 10 defender in points so I’m just taking it for what it is.

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  27. C3,I get it. I think they’ll harp on it through the playoffs next year. Milbury will be discussing it on NBCSN every chance he gets. I think it’s silly but it coulda gone the other way- he could be a Devil for 7 years 42 million and no one that’s unhappy with this deal would be any happier.

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  31. I’m loving how it seems that Larry Brooks is totally out of touch with the Rangers organization. He’s been totally wrong on the 2 biggest moves so far this summer and I wonder if Gorton is having somebody mess with him by giving him false information.

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  34. Admiral and Dave- I was wondering what they saw in Pavelec too then I looked into it a bit. This is a guy who has only won 152 games in a 10 year NHL career. Mind you he was playing for a pretty awful Atlanta/Winnipeg team all this time. Check this out-
    Two seasons ag0 (14-15) before Winnipeg started to try to bring Hellebuyck along, OP started 46 games posting a 2.28gaa and a .920 Save %. In comparison that year we were winning the Presidents’ trophy with Lundqvist (keeping his injury in mind) finished with a 2.25gaa and a .922 Save %. Both posted 5 shut outs a piece respectfully.
    Now I bring that up not so much as a comparison but to point out that Pavelec has the skill set to be a starter/solid 1A goalie. I think he slipped through the cracks a bit with Winnipeg pushing Hellebuyck to take the reigns while being one of the poorest defensive teams despite their individual defender talents and also the most penalized team in the league this passed season. So yeah he’s absolutely a reclamation project but he’s a good one who has the talent and the skills to potentially shine now that he’s going to have a good team in front of him.

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  36. Not for nothing, but if McD and Shatner find themselves as partners…imagine what a beast McDonagh would be if he mostly focused on defending and making sure he backed up his partner. I mean, partnered with Girardi, he was already kinda doing that.

    I can think of 4 dmen on the Rangers last year that, if the man back on a 2-on-1, would make me just as uncomfortable as Shattenkirk. None of said defensemen came with 50-60 point potential.

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  39. Gotcha James. Unfortunately the more polished options cost 2x as much as Pav commanded.
    I’m kinda out on Kuemper – career tweener who had his one moment a few years back when several other goalies weren’t available, but not a guy who has room to grow.
    Niemi and Pavelec measure up kinda eerily similar – and the one we didn’t grab cost under 800k. But I will say that Niemi’s been trending downwards, all while still expected to be a Number 1, up until last season. Pavelec’s down trending coincided with another goalie being brought along, as you said James. He wasn’t GREAT beforehand, but hey, he’s mid tier talent and was on bad teams.

    If the choice (under our budget) was between the $1.3m guy and the 700k guy, and our goalie whisperer felt the $1.3 guy was the one – that’s who we got.

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  40. It sounds like from all the “after the fact pressers” that the rangers are intending to use shattenkirk as mcdonuts partner. I’m curious to see how that goes. I like the chemistry skjeL and smith had during the playoffs and I don’t see staal and shattenkirk being a fit (wholly expensive 3rd pair lol). The only other viable options I see are the ones Dave posted (I think it was Dave) yesterday.

    It’ll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

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  43. Good morning, boneheads!
    I don’t understand the debate on whether Shattenkirk left any money on the table. There is a reason everyone signs their first UFA contract to the highest possible number, and the longest possible term. Actually there are many reasons, but a potential injury could be the most important. If he sustains a career ending injury during these 4 years, he lost many millions. Even an injury that is not career ending may decrease the value of his next contract. So yes, he is far from being underpaid, but he left a lot of money on the table knowing that he may never see it. He took a chance because he wanted to play in NY. Doesn’t happen that often. Kudos to him for understanding that money isn’t the most important thing in our lives.

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  47. Seems like Alzner at 5-years was the longest term. Conventional wisdom says that teams are finally backing off from the 7-year deals for UFAs (younger RFAs are another animal all together). But then you have a guy like Shattenkirk, who apparently offered up the 4 year deal to us. He also said in his interview that the teams he felt he was the best fit on were also offering shorter term.
    I know he made a gut decision based on his heart, but maybe players are also wary of the long term deals? The ones that almost always end in 3 years of being booed, torn apart in the media, and being humiliated when the eventual scratching/fake injury/demotion/trade with top prospect for 3rd rounder/buyout happens? Maybe players are figuring out that those aren’t worth it?

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  50. DaveB- different players. While I agree that teams are reluctant to go more than 5 in general because of the lockout, it was widely reported that he was offered 7, including by the team playing across the Hudson.

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  52. I read the brooks article from this morning, he stated after z pack and fast there was about 4 mil left…not sure that’s enough to add a centre via trade (guess it depends on what centre they are trading for) and a grigorenko type.

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  55. If Stepan were still here and we had to project the points out of our first 3 centers, we are probably looking at 50-50-40. So if we expect Zika to pony up 65, Hayes to go 50, then we’re out a 25 point 3rd line center.

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  56. Word I get is that the Goalie Whisperer had a ton of input into the backup selection. I think he wanted Ocho. Nilsson, too, but he got too much money. Not sure what his connection is with Pavelec, but I imagine we’ll find one eventually.

    I think the Rangers fully understand they’re getting a slightly better Yandle — poor in his own end, without the puck, but exactly the type Bazooka Joe needs in his system. Which is why they wouldn’t go near seven years. Which is partly why Brooks has been so wrong — me too. I thought Shattenkirk would go for the six or seven, for sure.

    as for Gorton toying with Brooks. I doubt it. If anything, MSG will bend over backward for the Post because it hates the News so much. You didn’t hear that from me.

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  57. They have over $8M now, plus de-Klein’s 2.9, which is coming off whether he retires or not. (FYI, when Girardi broke a rib or two in the playoffs, if he wasn’t able to play, Kampfer was going in, not de-Klein). If they do trade for a C, they will lose the salary of whomever they trade. And if need be they can eras Holden’s cap hit. So there’s plenty there. Just not a lot of Cs worth it.

    https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

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  112. Lol Finn. Know the boxes well.
    Knew a guy I’ll refer to as “skinner” that spent a lotta time at Sue’s. He used to say a lot of things glowed in there

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  119. James, years ago, my local gas-station hot rod mechanic lived in Premium Point. He had quit Hackley and didn’t get along with his old man who, (of course) was loaded with green. He wanted to be a Nascar driver. I told him to make nice with Daddy lest he was cut out of the will. He told me there was no need because his grandfather was a founder of SwissAir and that at age 21, he would come into a fortune. Some kids have all the luck.

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  124. Shattenkirk- someone who follows his heart and is willing to give up money to do it
    To pull a shattenkirk- to follow your heart, gut, and dreams. Even at the expense of millions of dollars.

    Put it on urban dictionary.

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  126. JG know Hommocks well..since we grew up in the Bronx Murray’s was closer the ole A,B and C divisions..the guy who we were friends with at Murray’s managed the rink, drove the Zamboni from time to time actually reffed an NHL game, a Devil’s game after the refs sat out following the whole Schoenfeld/Koharski blow up I remember him well..Paul McGuiness

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  127. had my skates sharpened at a place (I believe it was in the basement) on Boston Post Rd in Mamaroneck ..i forgot the name…also remember a place in New Rochelle I bought sticks at near the mall….and also Peck’s in WP and the Ferraro Twins pro shop at Playland to name a few ( Had to stay away from Cosby’s-too expensive but paragon’s down on 17th St was reasonable

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  129. When I look at the % of people who thought Stepan was an overrated, overpaid 2C, and the % of people who are now griping that we have a huge hole at 1C…the math ain’t adding up right.

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  130. @Wicky : “I don’t see staal and shattenkirk being a fit (wholly expensive 3rd pair lol).” You did mean *unholy* right?
    @Wicky : re tax adjusted cap – that would get a little messy as only half home games but certainly can factor in all the same conference games. Cali teams would be very happy.

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  134. Speaking of opie, I’ve seen more than one media outlet saying the rangers got rid of “older” players stepan and Girardi.

    Even in hockey years, I didn’t think 27 was really “old”

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  139. Oops, copied wrong post.
    .

    Best thing about the Kevin Kirk signing is that we kept him from the Devils…

    ________

    I’d rather have their #1 pick than Shart.

    FIXED

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  144. Coos I think you’re referring to down by the bay the little hole in the wall between the lot where Mcgwires used to be and the old gas station.

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  146. I still think Freddy Krüger is an alright option if we trade Holden.

    Gotcha Wicky. I agree – we haven’t had a real prototypical 1C in god knows how many years. I’m just seeing across the internet a lot of gripes that we traded our #1 center and never replaced him. Didn’t see nearly that many people stepping up and claiming Step was a #1 when he was here
    Wasn’t calling out anybody in particular

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  154. Ouch on that Price extension! So the two highest paid goalies have 0 cups between them. Granted, Price was previously the fifth most expensive. So of the top 10 cap hit goalies, only Crawford has won (2), HL, Rinne, Rask, Bishop all get 1 runner-up

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  164. What I miss all day. 8 yr wedding anniversary and after my alone time all day yesterday it’s family day.

    Price 8
    Yrs 10.5 yikes.

    Any other signings?

    Eric from plainview good morning Carpy.

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  167. Makes a lot of sense re: Opie, Carp.
    Especially with the quick and dramatic decline we’ve seen in players like Mike Richards and Dan Girardi where it’s more about the mileage than the age. That contract had to be looking pretty scary

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  170. Happy Anniversary Eric!

    I realize the dust is still settlung, but anyone hear any rumors about what 2c/3c’s might be available in a trade? Somebody, as I believe Coos pointed out, with a bit of grit would be ideal. I’m guessing it might have to come from a team who needs to shed some salary, but we’re not looking to take on a bad contract unless we’re shipping Staal the other way. Based on what Girardi got, Staal probably has some trade value if we eat a little salary. Obviously, Staal would have to approve a trade.

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  176. Staal’s decline I believe is directly related to his concussion and serious eye injury. Hasn’t been the same since. Would love to see him moved the sooner the better. But AV loves that Staal / Holden pairing! So it will never happen.

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  191. With the leafs signing of Marleau currently they are 2.5 over the cap. Granted they can put Horton on LTIR solve problems how about working a trade for Tyler bozak who’s got one yr left on his deal at 31 with cap hit of 4.25. Leafs could use d help. Any chance sending Holden and picks. Bozak will prob command more next contract with Matthews marner and nylander to pay.

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  193. Capitals trade Marcus johansen to Devils for panthers 2nd rd pick and leafs 3rd pick.

    Caps clear 4.5 in space. Need sign burakowsky and grubaurer

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  200. Bozak not a bad option at all. Especially since he’s in the last year of his deal. If they’re looking at pure dump – Holden and a 3rd should get it done i would think.

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  201. Bozaks career #s eerily similar to Step.
    322 points in 515games. Step 360 in 515. Less time on PP. much better at the dot. 4.2 cap hit could fit

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  202. Think Bozak might take more than Holden and a pick but that would certainly work from our end. Wow these are some nutty numbers today. Did they all keeping drinking through day after Canada day?

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  206. I think Holden and a pick works if it’s a straight salary dump. If other teams start asking, the price goes up.

    Holden’s a must on our end, in terms of $$. We may need to add in a prospect.

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  215. McDonough tweeted out what a great teammate and guy (paraphrasing) Stepan is. He mentioned Raanta as well. Brendan Smith lamented losing Stepan after he re-signed with the Rangers, but said it was part of the business. I have no idea if Hank hates or hated Stepan, but before we read too much into this let’s remember that Hank probably owes a chunk of his big contract to all the shots that Girardi blocked in front of him. Plus, Lundqvist and Girardi had been there the longest.

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  216. Eric

    I think Thornton had 2 deals in place with SJ. one if marleau stayed and one if he left. Per tweets from out there including from their management he was willing to work with them to keep marleau.

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  223. Gravy
    I liked 1C, but we got z pack for him so we had to make that trade. Sometimes we have to see players we like traded for the betterment of the organization.

    He did have a down season in Ottawa though.

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  225. There are some old guys making a ton of money out of this, the deals being dished out to Marleau, Thornton, Hainsey, Kunitz, Williams, Vrbata and Miller are a bit crazy. I really hope we don’t jump on the bandwagon…..but it worries me that Mike Fisher’s name is still out there…and what is the deal with Brooks Laich? Is he fit to play after his concussions?

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  226. Free agency made me laugh too – when you see analysis like:

    “Getting Brian Boyle for two years and $5.1 million was actually a nice get for the Devils. He’s big, can score goals, and adds depth to a team badly in need of it.”

    He can score goals…….hand of stone, fists of blancmange Bran Bole? You’ve just overpaid for a 4th line center and PKer, desperate times in Newark

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  231. Some insane contracts signed by GMs last night. Marleau $6.25M for 3 years, 35+ contract. With NMC. Really? This one is on their books even if Marleau retires in a year. Meantime Matthews, Marner, and Nylander will need extensions.

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  235. That Marleau contract is puzzling. Maybe that’s what it took to pry him away from re-signing with SJ, but I’d just have sent him a card.

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  249. Count me in on Bozak for Holden and pick(s) (as long as it isn’t a 1st). Bozak’s faceoff percentage the last three seasons has been 56, 56 and 53. Not so sure about Grigorenko on the 4th line. I have the feeling that you would “lose” him by burying him on the 4th line, plus he isn’t exactly defensive responsible. I would prefer not to spend too much money on a 4th line center. Remember we will be losing some of our cap cushion if you swap out Holden for Bozak.

    Unless they can get a good faceoff guy, I would see if Nieves or Lettieri can make the jump.

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  253. @simonkimbrell Boyle 13 goals in 75, Zuc had 15 in 80 so would not call Boyle an embarassment in that regard. I would have taken him in a heartbeat at that price too. Responsible 3rd/4th liner, PK skill, can play defense if called upon and has a lot of playoff games under his belt. Bad blood on how he was used his last year here and let to walk was too much I guess for either side.

    Did anyone call into Carp last night?

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  258. Beezle – just the small matter of 44 assists versus 12 to add to those goal totals, 26PIM vs 88 so who is more responsible? Not to mention the fact that he was slower than Girardi on one leg and softer than a melted marshmallow?

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  259. I’m in for Nieves as 4C – barring unforeseen injury or bad camp (or someone unexpected seizing his opportunity), he’s gotta at least be penciled in for that role. There’s also the strategy, if Nieves isn’t the guy, of waiting for the inevitable end-of-camp waiver waterfall. It might be pragmatic of Gorton to leave a spot on the 4th line unfilled, and see what kind of goodies the other teams try and sneak through.

    Bozak makes A LOT of sense as a trade target. Colin Wilson would’ve been an interesting one. Being that he got dumped for a 4th, by a team with a buttload of cap space, tells me that the price of acquiring a Bozak isn’t so high.

    Other guys we might take a look at in trade:

    Darren Helm/Luke Glendening/Riley Sheahan – Not as much skill as I’d like in a 3C on this team. FO % hovers a bit over 50%. Will be making $3.85M for the next 4 years. Detroit has $3.8M in cap space, but needs to sign Tatar and Athanasiou. Luke Glendening is a much more affordable $1.8M for 4 more seasons, but he’s more of a 4th liner. Riley Sheahan is making $2M this year, coming up on RFA, but I view him as a fourth liner as well, and not a good FO guy. Anyway, 3 guys to keep an eye on, but personally I’d pass.

    Andrew Cogliano/Antoine Vermette – Anaheim has almost $6M in cap space, and really no immediate NEED to clear room because they have their core locked up (with only Josh Manson as a key piece approaching RFA). But if they’re looking to add anything big, or have an internal budget – Cogliano and Vermette are both approaching UFA. Cog makes $3M, Vermette makes $1.8. Personally I’d rather have Vermette – cheaper and a MUCH better faceoff man. If we can pry him away, do it. But it’ll cost us.

    Marcus Krügęr – Being that Vegas will literally trade anybody for a pick, you can prob get Marcus Kruger, making $3M for another 2 years, for a 2020 3rd rounder. Not a great FO guy though, and not traditionally a point producer. But someone that won’t cost us much to acquire, and he has upside.

    Cody Eakin – He’d cost more than Kruger, has same cap hit (with 1 less year in term) than Darren Helm. But he’s a lil ball of hate, as Hank knows.

    Joe Colborne – Coming off a terrible year in Colorado, the prior year in Calgary he scored 19 goals and 45 points with a faceoff percentage of 55%. Making $2.5M this season heading into UFA. Colorado has a ton of cap space, but only 3 defensemen under contract, needs to sign Zadorov, and is likely a budget team. I’d actually go hard after this guy. But knowing Sakic, he’ll want Buchnevich, Ryan Gropp and a 1st.

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  260. The bottom line is this team needs to get, and stay younger, and faster moving forward. Signing aging FA’s is not Gorton’s plan! If it was Jumbo Shrimp would have Nash on his wing when they drop the puck in Oct.

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  262. Guys be careful about faceoff % without looking at the numbers. Yes, he won 55% of his draws in 2015-16, but he only took 155 of them. Last year Grigorenko won about 58% of his faceoffs, but only took 192 of them.

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  268. I still believe JG will work some magic down the middle! He’s not done yet. If he has learned anything from Sather it’s THINK BEFORE YOU ACT!!!

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  269. good off season for dallas
    bad for washington – not from this tweet

    Mike Heika‏Verified account @MikeHeika

    Hearing Stars will announce Radulov signing soon. Five years, just over $6 million per.

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  270. Mike Heika of the Dallas Morning News is reporting that Alexander Radulov is close to a five year $6.25 million per contract with the Stars. I guess Dallas got even for Montreal signing Ales Hemsky (1 year $1 million).

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  275. Jagr says no one will return his phone calls. Same thing happens to all overblown egos in the end. The same phonies who for years kissed their buttcheeks disappear like a vague memory lost.

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  277. While Shatty’s deal was a big one, it is kind of nice for a change to know that the Rangers aren’t the ones who have gone insane in the membrane with some of these contracts.

    Eric – Any word from Uncle Lou and Shanny? 🙂

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  283. I had the NHL Network on early this morning and they seemed to think that Jagr will end up being some team’s fallback option. I wonder if the Pens would think of bringing him on a
    sort-of farewell tour. He wouldn’t have to do much heavy lifting and could rack up pretty impressive offensive numbers playing on a line with Sid and Geno.

    Of course, Murray and Niemi might not be thrilled since “Mario Jr” needed a road map to find the defensive end back when he had wheels.

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  292. Alex – You sure that shouldn’t have said “horny” moose?!? I had to go to the site to watch it and the only thing missing was the old Benny Hill theme song.

    Coos – I am sure Shatty would have stayed home to play at Iona if we hadn’t of bagged the hockey program a couple of years earlier. GRR ARRG! Yes, I am still bitter and upset about it and the way it was done.

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  297. Thornton on 1 year deal? Money wouldn’t matter. Would’ve given a couple of young centers they just drafted another year to mature. And would’ve taken them right to next year’s FA. Even on bummed knee, and at 38 would still be an instant 1st line center.

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  298. Coos – The worst part was I knew a month in advance. Will never forgive Iona for telling the team days before its playoff game. Interestingly enough, all of the people responsible are no longer at Iona and a couple did stay around much longer after the axe fell on the program.

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  299. And trading for Bozak is also a bad idea. Unless very cheap. They should keep it simple. Make Miller a center. That opens up space for both Vesey, and Buchnevich to play more. Let Nieves, and Andersson fight it out for the 4th center spot. After 40 games see where you are at.

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  303. Anybody have any thoughts on Brooks Laich? Kinda tossed on the scrap heap in Toronto – he’s available, says he’s healthy, and is 34. So he theoretically could be brought on for a very very low-paying 1-year deal, and if it doesn’t work out or he can’t hack it, he walks away and it doesn’t count.

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  313. Laîch was on robidas island just off the coast with Michalek, Horton, lupul, and the man himself mr robidas

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  316. How about Gregory Campbell since we are bringing “hometown” players in. Just think, the Rangers would finally be on the plus side of Player (Un)Safety decisions.

    In truth, outside of Grigorenko the pickings are slim. You could make Zucc happy and bring David Desharnais or go with John Mitchell 2.0/Matt Cullen 2.0. Jay McClement is as slow as can be, but he is good on faceoffs.

    Hey, just noticed that one place lists Pavel Datsyuk as a free agent ….

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  320. Wicky – I just saw his name while perusing the defenseman. Could always sign hi, to have a mole in the Panthers front office – wouldn’t mind Barkov or Hubderdeau. Then again, who wouldn’t.

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  321. Carp loves Jumbo Joe! Screw all these 35 and older guys Rangers aren’t winning the cup with or without them! Younger, faster, is the way to go. Rebuild on the fly not patch it together! How many times has this organization tried that?

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  329. Didn’t realize Gregory retired, but I was going for the joke – and obviously not a good one. Hey, I am still a little punchy because I just finished up my Annual Report – YEA! Now I have my performance evaluation to work on – BOO! Nice move having both coincide at the same time – NOT!

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  332. I always like g Campbell, very important in that bruins cup. Might be past the best before date though.

    I’ve changed my mind a bit on the other hayes, I’d take a flyer on him with a low dollar show me contract. I still like grigorenko.

    Kruger or bozak might be a little better options cap wise. They are also a faceoff upgrade (serious issue on this team imo).

    Duchene and Galchenyuk are big talent upgrades to this roster but at what cost? Duchene would be a faceoff upgrade as well, not so sure if Galchenyuk would.

    Is there another high talent centre out there that might be on the rangers radar?

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  338. trading for a good center is going to cost you a good wing. Then you need to trade for a good wing. I guess you could use a good Dman (Skjei) to get yourself a winger. But now you need to replace Skjei. What I am saying is, wait it out. You drafted the two centers for a reason. Wouldn’t it be nice if when they go here they had wingers to play with?

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  339. I thinj they need 2 centres right now with everyone that is currently on it. They need a top 2 centre (preferably a 1C, which they have not had in years) and a legit NHL 4C.

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  345. Wicky – Just looked at career numbers for Stepan and Galchenyuk and the faceoff % are about the same 45% with Galy a smidge better (like .3%). The difference is Stepan was taking a higher percentage of “important” draws (no figures just the eye test and common sense).

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  347. Was never interested in signing shattenkirk. At least it’s 4 years and not 7 is only saving grace. Another yandle for sure and yes jumbo joe I wanted bad. 2 yrs was not an issue.

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  348. The only Rangers who are “untouchable” are those who have NMC and full NTC. Other than that, I am all ears on any trade proposals. The Shattenkirk signing restricts the Rangers some. For example, if Joe Sakic did offer Matt Duchene even up for Brady Skjei, the Rangers are adding $5 million in salary this year – plus whatever money you need to replace Skjei on defense (keeping Holden or bringing in another d-man – even if it is a kid they are close to making what Skjei makes).

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  355. It makes sense to trade skjeL if the organization believes any of Day, berezgolov, graves, or rueannen can be a top 4 or 6 NHL d man.

    Now, as I posted a few threads ago when someone asked (I think it was James) about who and why to trade from the left side D, skjeL is the most logical choice due to NHL experience (more than other good young prospects), going to get a new contract next season, value of selling high, and again, depth.

    Now as I have stated numerous times…no one is or should be untouchable and if all things were equal, skjeL would be in my top 6 on the left but things aren’t equal.

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  358. Couldn’t disagree with you more on Skjei Wicky.

    also big difference between top 4 and top 6.

    hopefully Gorton keeps our 2nd best dman in Skjei.

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  359. Like we all mused about a month or so ago, there are players you would trade skjeL for even up if salary was equal.

    Based on that convo, if skjeL is part of a deal to improve other areas of a team with a player you would hypothetically trade him even up for, no reason to not consider him in a deal that makes sense.

    He isn’t untouchable or untradeable, no one is (movement clauses aside)

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  362. Capt. Kirk may be the new, improved Yandle 2.0 but big difference in how they each came to the team. I just hope Kirk doesn’t make some of those incredibly bad defensive zone passes right to the other team for grade A chances like Ynadle did.

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  364. Alex
    I get it. To you skjeL is untouchable. Fine, maybe he is to the organization. I’m not unhappy keeping the guy (a fact that seems to be glossed over by you). I’m talking about asset management not personally about a player.

    Others here talk about the exact thing I do in utilizing an asset (skjeL) and organizational depth (lefty D) to improve other areas that are lacking like top end talent, top centre, and until the shattenkirk addition righty D.

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  370. Wicky depth on left side? seriously?

    try 2 guys. mcd and skjei.

    the way you and others write about staal take him out of equation.
    smith can play on right side quite well.

    what have day and graves done thus far?
    they’re just names at this point.

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  371. If day and graves both had a year of NHL experience and showed they would be good 2nd pair d men in the NHL and with the other 7 lefty d we have at various levels of development/ability in the organization, id be suggesting moving one of them to address other areas of need.

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  373. Build on skill, Alex. If Buchnevich develops to the level he’s been projected, and you still have an excess of skilled wingers, he can bring a top D-man in a trade.
    As for Yandle-Shattenkirk comparison. Yandle is a L handed D-man, and doesn’t shoot as well as Shattenkirk. Big difference in both areas.

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  375. ILB

    even at the draft the talking heads were talking about building through d corps and centers.

    i like good wings as much as anybody but they are easier to fill in then really good centers or dmen.

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  377. I’m not claiming that these two guys get you the center they are looking for, but the guys to trade are Zucc, and Nash. They are probably not going any further than this year with Nash, and I know fans would storm the garden if they traded Zucc.

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  378. I agree with Alex , about centers and D. That’s why teams ask for D when trading a center. Having said that, if Skjei was the price to pay for Duchene, sign me up.
    Alex,
    Brady Skjei was just a name until he made the team, and then he wasn’t just a name.

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  380. Be careful, even the mentioning of trading Zucc will bring out the villagers with their pitchforks and torches.

    The problems with the Duchene deal are: A) what other pieces have to go back to the Avs. B) Factoring the avilable money they have, plus Klein if he retires and removing Skjei, that gives the Rangers about $13 million in cap space. However, almost half goes out the window with Duschene’s $6 mil, with Mika and Fast to sign plus still needing to fill out the roster and having a little cushion. C) I am not so sure I “want” Duchene.

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  381. BDL

    Skjei was thought of higher than a Day or Graves. Lots of baggage on Day. Yes i know about how he was thought of at 15 or was it even earlier.

    Duchene and the other guys in Colorado didn’t make the playoffs without a d corps.

    Zucc and Nash don’t bring in the prime time assets if traded.

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  382. We are also talking about skjeL, who if I am not mistaken, has never scored more than 6 or 7 goals, had more than 28 points, or been higher than a +7 from U.S. development to the start of this past NHL season.

    So while he had a good statistical season this past year with the rangers (best of his multiple level career), It may not be the norm but an aberration.

    One good early NHL statistical season does not a career make. I hope he replicates it and improves on it as a member of the rangers, but to treat him as this amazing untouchable guy is a bit over the top imo.

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  383. From way back – Laich would be a camp tryout at best, you’re right Carp.

    Grigorenko KHL bound I just read. But maybe he’ll surface in 5 years, come to play for the Habs, and suddenly have “an infectious work ethic” and command a 6 year deal

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  388. My last point doesn’t matter if you are basing your untouchableness (is that a word) of skjeL as a shutdown guy. But shutdown guys need to be better in their own zone (which I fully believe skjeL will be, he showed drastic improvement in that area in the playoffs)

    If it’s his offencive game, until last season, he never really showed one so has he just found it or was it more of an outlier?

    If it’s solid all around, which I believe it will be, while valuable at this current cap hit, seems like it may be less valuable (not irrelevant) with his next contract depending on its $$$$.

    Respectfully, I disagree about him being our second c’est d man. Mcdonut and shattenkirk would seem to be top 2. You refer to others “opinion” of Staal being he is worse than bad, would mean you don’t agree with that (I personally think Staal is a NHL d man, just not worth his cap hit). Depending on where YOU rate Staal (again, clearly higher than many others here), staal could conceivably be 3rd best d man.

    So skjeL is 4th best d man on this team? Where do you have smith? He’s projected top 4 on this team…so equal to skjeL?

    Realistically skjeL is somewhere between tied for 3rd to 5th best d man on this roster.

    Not exactly untouchable imo. But also certainly not a throw away or cast off.

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  389. On another note, I would love to see graves and his shot on the rangers blue line (preferably in the Staal spot;))

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  390. Sakic is delusional he is asking way too much for Duchene. And for what we would have to give up to get him would not make this cotton candy crew any closer to a cup. And you are wrong Carp I won’t cry if they should miss the playoffs. I have been a fan since the early 70’s. I am used to disappointment. I trust JG’s plan to rebuild on the fly no more trading 1st rd picks, and no to signing retirees, my prediction is jumbo joe won’t finish the season!

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  391. Clarification on my 4:25…

    I believe he will be better in his own zone as he moves along in his career.

    I believe he will be a “solid all around d man” as the type of d man “category” he will fall into.

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  396. I think until (and if) the rangers trade to address the top end centre position, he’ll come up a lot because he is one of the best assets to use in the deal.

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  397. Totally ridiculous that on a team with Shatty and Donuts anyone would consider Shay top anything. He has a long way to go to be as talented and valuable as either of the top 2 around here.

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  401. Wicky

    they won’t and should not attempt to trade their 2nd best dman (Skjei) based on one of several other needs. It’s not all about this year and this year only. They drafted 2 centers in 1st rd this year.

    regarding Staal – I don’t think anybody expects him to finish his contract here. 2 years max. I believe he can and will be traded as early as after this coming season. If he has no move all remaining years instead of some no trade and invokes it then he gets bought out in a year or 2. Staal will have little effect on whether Skjei should be or will be traded.

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  409. And here we go….

    I wasn’t the first or second to bring up trading him but it’s all me.

    You must think me to be one powerful Jedi who is controlling all these other posters to post about him.

    Maybe I’m really all the posters Alex, maybe it’s just you and me and no one else here.

    I wish I was a tenth of the human beings that ilb, bdl, carp, Anthony and others who have brought up trading skjeL but you seem to think I am them lol.

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  413. I’m really flattered how much attention you pay to me.

    I’m blushing over here and the wife is starting to get a bit jealous.

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  415. Rangers would ideally like to package Staal before letting go of a younger Dman. Obviously you’ve gotta include a young asset (s) with him. Holden isn’t getting you anything

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  417. Any trade where I pony up Holden…I’m not suggesting Holden has some kind of magical trade value. I just figure there are trades out there where a team is merely looking to dump salary, and Holden would be a necessary offset on our part. If there’s a hockey trade to be made, Holden and a mid rounder ain’t getting it done.

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  418. James
    Exactly and that’s the point of the ongoing discussing about who or what to trade to get who or what.

    If you just want to deal for a NHL caliber 4C or that type of value, then you can probably trade Holden or lower draft picks.

    If you want 1C or higher in talent then you talk about high draft picks or players of more value.

    Of course you can’t have an ongoing convo about it because it’s against the rules apparently.

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  424. All I know is with the holiday tomorrow it’s beer thirty and the twilight zone marathon has begun at my house (Netflix)

    How long til Shattenkirk talks about having some good looks on the PP?

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  432. Maybe if Ottawa falls out of playoff contention this year, they trade former Wisconsin Badger Kyle Turris and his expiring contract at the deadline? He was impressive in the playoffs.

    It would be a rental, but maybe McDonough and Smith convince him to stay? Yeah I know. Lot of ifs.

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  438. The man in the high castle is a good binge watch…same with the daredevil, Jessica jones, iron fist, Luke cage marvel series (all come together in the upcoming defenders series)

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  443. James. Lol we don’t. The a.m. Radio is still it. We just had a dog sled delivery of VHS tapes and the first season of wrecked was in them, along with a VHS of 1994 Stanley cup parade with a team that must have relocated, the first 40 episodes of Larry king live, and two seasons of taxi with a guy that looks like shattenkirk.

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  448. Admittedly I don’t have a lot of free time, the publisher I work for just signed on for another whole series of adolescent books of how to cope with school and internet bullying and my plate is so full with managing the editing process.

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  451. Shattenkirk’s agent Tony Clifton:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=tony+clifton+gif&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=ivsn&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&fir=U2_1aekcQZYPjM%253A%252CjPqKes1d7awncM%252C_%253Bg8CljjLkc1tm8M%253A%252CjUw1IXznZDmhsM%252C_%253Bx615tptJN4QT1M%253A%252C9YGCK8yahfY_xM%252C_%253B-TV6jG2DuhtVIM%253A%252CjPqKes1d7awncM%252C_%253B-Vs0cCZQp69N1M%253A%252CFRAu25D0yzRhCM%252C_%253BRPHE6UjMI5zqSM%253A%252CT0sASIlYOK3_9M%252C_%253Biw0Uwh8ScvnzJM%253A%252CjPqKes1d7awncM%252C_%253BErdPdFCruW21BM%253A%252CTjhbefi1pQdJ8M%252C_&usg=__BciXrMVcs5fEgpuOblgKuVIah4s%3D&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG64H-pu7UAhUBUz4KHa66DT0Q7AkINA&biw=375&bih=628#q=tony+clifton+gif&hl=en-us&prmd=ivsn&tbm=isch&tbs=itp:animated&imgdii=V8rt-uPfCrpSVM:&imgrc=g8CljjLkc1tm8M:

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  461. Jessica Jones was excellent. Daredevil was mostly good. Luke Cage started strong but tapered off badly. Iron Fist was the weak link – I was into it but I knew I was watching something subpar. The show runner was the guy responsible for the worst seasons of Dexter. They just didn’t put A-level people on the project.

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  465. Friday night lights was a great show, watched all of it in the space of a few weeks. Just catching up on Mr Robot after i got up to date on The Walking Dead and Fear The Walking Dead

    I liked Iron Fist, you should also look up Luther & Line of Duty if they’re available in the grand old U.S of A – two good English cop dramas!

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