Rangers-2 , Golden Knights-4

Good morning boneheads!

I didn’t see the game yet, will watch later tonight. So whatever I say has nothing to do with this game.

Last three games ( maybe even four, if you include the one Hank won against the Blues ) are very worrisome to me. And not because they got outscored 18-3, and not because their compete level went down. I don’t expect that to be in full display game in, game out. You are bound to see a few stinkers, sometimes in succession. I’m worried because they have totally lost their structure that was on display a few weeks after  this season started. They lost it in all three zones. Everything is 180 from what David Quinn was able to build initially. They don’t work as one unit anymore, they do not know what to expect from their teammates, they seemingly do not know where to be without a puck. No puck support. I can go on and on. If someone can explain it, please do. I can’t. It’s on the coaching stuff. And I am not necessarily questioning David Quinn’s coaching ability. I just have no idea how to explain it. Anyone?

The structure needs to be in place again before another deadline purge occurs  because it will be much more difficult to reinstall it with so many new/young faces in the lineup. If David Quinn and Co can’t accomplish that it will be a lost season imo.

Click here to read Carp’s game review.

 

273 thoughts on “Rangers-2 , Golden Knights-4”

  1. I have not seen the game yet either. I read they played better. But you do have to be concerned with the present attitude of the team. The veteran guys seem to know they need help, and they know they are not going to get it. So game after game, they play shorthanded. It wares guys down.

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  2. Let’s face it with Nash and Grabner (and Mack and Girardi) we’ve been spoilt these last two seasons when it comes to PKers and like having a Hank in net it probably hasn’t shown us the stark realities of an average penalty killing unit, and this lot isn’t even that!

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  3. Just know that every player on Vegas was available in a hockey trade prior to expansion draft. They play like Torts NYR but with more skill. Very fun team to watch.

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  4. The roster issues are obvious. Can’t change that, and it will get worse before it gets better. My hope was that Quinn would built the foundation this season on how he wanted them to play. It was going in the right direction, even when they were losing. Scores are irrelevant this year. But lately it’s been in total reverse. No structure. Still time to fix that. And now it’s on David Quinn and Lindy Ruff to do the right thing.

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  5. This is a bottom 5 roster talent wise and the fact they were in the top half of the league is a testament to DQ and his staff. Just like AV who tried to get out strong before the league woke up, ultimately, talent wins out.
    They just don’t have a defense that will stop opponents. In no world should Shatty and Bev be paired together with Claeson not playing. Pickles should be in every night. There are some obvious D pairings which will leave one of the 4 RDs and 4 LDs in the press box.
    Can somebody tell me why Henk sits out against the good teams and Georgie Porgie is thrown to the wolves? I can think of 8.5 million reasons why it should be the other way…

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  6. I think this team would be a better one without a 10ft pole on the 4th line and a pass happy Norwegian

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  7. There are a few empty uniforms on the team. Except for a handful of games, both Chytil and Buchnevich have been empty uniforms. Zucc has been mostly an empty uniform. Smith, and Shattenkirk have been empty uniforms.

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  8. Good morning Boneheads welcome to Wednesday! Fell asleep after the 1st period, enough said. The only hope I presently have is that this site survives the rebuild. Honestly looking at the make up of this cotton candy crew I have little faith in Gorton and company to right the sinking ship. But I will continue to blindly believe something good will happen, even if it seems unlikely. 1 cup since 1940 tells me this rebuild may take a very long time!

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  9. Wicky,
    Chytil plays every night. Regardless of how many times he loses the puck in the neutral zone. Regardless of how clueless he is in his own end. Regardless of how often he gets knocked off the puck, and on to his ass. Regardless of the last time he scored with a goaltender in net.

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  10. Who/what would you give up (and be ok with it) if another team offered you:

    1. Topo
    2. Buch
    3. VC
    4. Zib
    5. Hayes
    6. THE

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  11. This team is an amorphous entity with an extremely high uncertainty for almost every participant. How any system could be implemented for a roster, which is not even build as a team yet. Players have no idea who will be let go, traded, sent to Harford, bought out, put on wavers, or be in the team, much less, who will be playing with whom. All they know – it is inevitable for some. (like at the chicken farm – you know you will be screwed, just don’t know when). So, what system are you talking about? It’s taking toll not only on Zuc. Imagine, if even on this blog, constant guessing about every players future destiny creates heated, emotional storms, how players have to feel. On a top of this mental disarray, their cornstone of stability and main veteran, so called face of the team, himself is having kind of mental meltdown. I believe, that some team building will just start after February 25. Than we will probably, see better what is this team about in near future…Meanwhile don’t take it too serious. Any attempts to analyze that, make no sense and are preposterous at best…

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  12. Beezel,
    having watched, and knowing what I know of those players.
    I would not touch Zucc.
    I’d take a flyer on Buch, 3rd, or 4th rounder.
    Vesey, 4th rounder.
    Zibanejad, a good prospect and a 2nd, and 3rd.
    Hayes, a good prospect and a 1st.
    Kreider, a very good prospect, a good prospect, and a 1st. Or 2 young NHL players, past the prospect point, but not quite yet proven.

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  13. They are scuffling with not alot of talent but played better last night. Pacioretti is a bit of weasel though…nice to see McQuaid bury him and take on Reeves. Think thats the kind of stuff Quinn/Gorton want to see that may keep McQauid around

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  14. Knowing this tire fire will continue for some time (2-3 years. sorry Wick but he may need to write another letter…), what bloated contracts can NYR trade for in combination with other teams’ ready prospects to enhance the talent pipeline?

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  15. One interesting contract in Lucic, has 4 more seasons at $6M Cap Hit, horrible, yes but if Edm eats $2M and sends a very good prospect, is it worth having Lou Cheech on the 3rd line and providing some muscle for the kids? Too many years but that type of deal will help in the long run.

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  16. Good question beezle…

    I think all the forwards you listed would bring back at least a 3rd or higher.

    The thing is, if I was doing a full rebuild (too bad the rangers aren’t) I’d package some guys together to get a better return.

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  17. SN
    I’m a big proponent of a move like you are suggesting for lucic. It makes a lot of sense on a couple of levels.

    Hell, I’d do smith and beleskey for him with no retained salary.

    Maybe even just smith for lucic with something added on the Edmonton side.

    If gorton ever decided to grow a pair and make some serious moves, you need to reach the cap floor and you need to have guys under contract for expansion draft exposure as well.

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  18. Bobby Ryan is another bloated contract; able to get a Sens’ good prospsect as they draft very well. 3 more seasons after this one @$7.25M per. Trade Smith in the deal and its it makes more sense.

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  19. Dustin Brown is another one; 3 more seasons @ $5.85M per; actually having another good season on a bad team. Last year was 28-33-61

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  20. Alex
    That’s a great point if you are doing an on the fly quick Boston model turnaround.

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  21. Alex – that is a great point if you like our current D and think there are difference makers in the prospect pipeline that will make an on-ice impact in the next 2-3 seasons.

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  22. SN

    to me it’s a rebuild (handcuffed by bad contracts many of which go on for 2 1/2 more years). we don’t need to make the problem worse by adding another year or 2 (meaning 3 or 4 years from now hitting our books) to that in terms of very bad contracts to guys who will be even worse in a few years than they are now.

    we would have been far better off just keeping Girardi and not bringing in Shatty. instead we have fairly big cap hits for both (north of 10 million next year as an example)

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  23. Trade Henk (8.5), Shatty (6.65), VC (2.275), Zucc (4.5), Strome (3.1), Haze (5.175), and Smith (4.3) to make room: $34.5M off books; eat some salary for Smith & Shatty ($5M), bring in $19M Cap per year and sign Kreider for $7M x 5
    .
    Kreider – Zika – Brown
    Ryan – Cheadle – Fast
    Names – Howden – Lucic
    Belesky – Andersson – Gettinger
    .
    Shea – McQuaid
    Staal – Hayek
    Lindgren – Pionk
    .
    Russian Shesh
    Vet Back Up

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  24. Another team that drafts very well as the Senators (or better) is the Lightning.

    It makes sense to favor prospects the Lightning produce…. as well as perhaps give the Lightning some assistance in helping to win a Stanley Cup and thus assuring the Rangers of another first round pick.

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  25. SN

    that is an awful lineup. who is the top pick expected to be a year from now?

    and the sad thing is some of those guys would still be here 3-4 years from now.

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  26. BDL I think VC has shown enough that he warrants a late 2nd or a youngish 3rd pair with similar ‘not bad but disappointing’ vibe. Hayes I think you need to get an NHL players past the prospect point and that 1st (I’m still in favor of keeping if the $ can be worked out).

    Wicky agree if you can package, great. I just asked that way as sometimes it brings more clarity to what is realistic to get in a trade for some of these guys (not as much as most hope).

    Agreed with you guys on Lucic. Could do far worse and if we can swap some of our going nowhere cap hits, great.

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  27. Alex – bad news is this team is really going to stink over the next 2 seasons as well and the pipeline does not have many difference makers. I’ll take some vets and play the kids, but the pipeline, while better than 2 seasons ago is not fully set up yet.
    .
    Maybe some of those vets will develop the Hossa rash and be put on LITR…

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  28. SN

    yes really bad next year and probably the following year (although whatever haul we get at this deadline and the following deadline might make the 2nd year not nearly as bad).

    but the lineup you show is the gift that keeps on giving for bad bloated contracts adding 1 or 2 years to the 2 we already have on the books.

    with 2 years of bad hockey I can see a light at end of tunnel. not so much for 3 or 4 years of that.

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  29. Alex – we actually get out of bloated contracts (Shatty, Smith and Henk) and get players, while being overpaid, can still play in the league (unlike Shatty and Smith) and contribute up front. Takes less pressure off kids to perform and provides some support in the lean years.

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  30. couldn’t disagree more SN

    i think the fans in Edm, Ott and La would disagree as well.

    a bad contract for 2 more years after this is 1 thing. adding another year or 2 should be grounds for the gm to be fired if he went that route. like i said as bad as those forwards are now, imagine what the last 2 years of those contracts would bring in further fall off in ability (and makes already slow guys even slower).

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  31. For the Seattle draft, what is the status of limited NTC vs NMC? I know the latter are automatically protected but what about these ‘submit list of 10 teams you can’t be traded to’ contracts? Can they be left exposed?

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  32. Next year here’s hoping!
    Kreider – DJ – Kravtsov
    Panarin – Cheadle – Namestnikov
    VC – Howden – Kakko
    Lucic – Andersson – Fast
    .
    Shea – Pionk
    Staal – Hayek
    Lindgren – D Anger
    .
    Igor the Great
    Boy George

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  33. Eli,
    I would prefer Hughes, because I believe down the middle is where cups are won, but I wouldn’t be upset with Kappo.

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  34. I’m sure that there’s a lot of Oiler fans who would drive Lucic to New York. The same fans who want the gm fired for that deal.

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  35. Time for the Rangers to employ a couple few psychological tests for recruits. After someone is signed, it’s too late to realize that he is terminally stupid.

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  36. I’d take lucic on this team.

    If you can dump a contract (smith) or even a shattenkirk (better value than lucic) and something else from Edmonton, sign me up.

    Guy like lucic then gets McLeod out of your lineup if you want (McLeod has been better than ok and I have no issue with him in the lineup).

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  37. In order to come to the Rangers, Lucic would have to waive his NMC. Wouldn’t that in effect eliminate that clause in regards to the expansion draft?

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  38. BobbyO,
    I agree with you for the most part on Lucic. I suspect any team trading for him may get a bump up in his play. Just because he’s gotten out of the jail that is Edmonton.

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  39. From a Rangers fan living in Europe: “Got a text today from Vitali’s dad. They’re back in Russia now. Vitali Kravtsov will join his team Traktor today and will be examined by a doctor to see how bad the injury is. Coach wants him to play since he’s crucial for their playoff hunt. They play today against AK Bars, and then leave for a road trip to Moscow, Riga, and Bratislava. Kravtsov isn’t in pain and can use his arm, which is a good sign and could point to just a minor strain rather than a tear”

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  40. BDL, effectively it does. Except that if he waives his NMC to go to a specific team, his agent will insist on NMC to be continued or there is no deal. See Rick Nash situation.

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  41. Me too Wick definitely over McLeod. Imagine turning a corner in a dark alley and running into Lucic’s face? I’d be on the can with E3!

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  42. Ok, hypothetical question for all of you expert out of work GMs…

    Would you trade Kreider for lucic and puljujarvi?

    Or SkjeL for lucic and Bouchard?

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  43. Absolutely not!
    And I would really have to think about it. Obviously that one is about Bouchard. Tough one, not sure I’d do it. If they could get the cap hit even, then I’d do it.

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  44. BobbyO
    If I was gorton I’d be on him like ugly on a lucic (see what I did there?)

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  45. I’d take karlsson in a heartbeat if he’s ufa…but some here say he sucks

    😉

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  46. Bdl
    Sorry got busy, they talked about it with gallant who was on it.

    Gallant (and the guys on the show) said good fight between two willing guys that understand the nuances of hockey. The way the game should be played

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  47. Speaking of doing it right, love what Vegas did in the off-season with player acquisition.

    Could have said we were a cup finalist and just stood pat, but understood when better players are out there than what you have you go after them.

    Kudos to them, smart organization and gm.

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  48. Whom I wouldn’t let go, – is McQuaid. To my surprise and initial skepticism, he is extremely useful to this team in more way than one.

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  49. They have to see what McQuaid would bring back since he is UFA ….think Toronto would be interested for sure. Agree though that he is useful and keep thinking about Gorton/Quinn comments about being hard to play against. He fits the mold and stood up last night. Maybe Rangers try to keep him or bring him back as Free Agent

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  50. It’s about time for the “Hack of all Trades” to get crackin, the deadline ain’t too far away! This cotton candy crew needs a pool table full of balls!

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  51. first to admit I dont know the prospects
    But Pronman recap says Hughes and Kakko may end up 1a/1b scenerio
    In the writeup he mentions hughes has off the charts speed. Kakko has Pro-Avg speed
    After seeing what average speed gets you with Lias, I think where the game is now, you want the guy with off the charts speed if given a choice.
    So count me in the LoseforHUGHES camp still

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  52. Gorton should be immediately fired if he took on Lucic’s contract! 4 more years of $6m for the 31-34 year olds seasons of a broken down 4th liner?! And you would give up Kreider for that and a 1st round bust! Oh boy 🙂

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  53. Strome Ranger; 4-5-9 in 23 games with NYR for a bottom 6 forward translates to 15-19-34 over 82.
    Players in top 6 stats.
    Names; 38 GP; 4-11-15
    Butch; 26 GP; 7-5-12
    Zucc; 29 GP; 4-11-15

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  54. For a team full of middle six forwards, their is very little production save for Hayes from the middle six and no 4th line.
    VC has been awful over this horrid stretch. Me thinks he is 3rd liner with a vanishing act.

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  55. Lack of secondary scoring
    Lack of primary scoring
    Lack of Top D pair
    Lack of balanced D
    Lack of a good 4th line
    Lack of a consistent forecheck
    Lack of a consistent 60 min effort
    Lack of consistent goaltending
    Lack of a competent management team
    Lack of a excellent prospect pool
    Other than that we’re doing OK!

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  56. That’s called a mess. And the Lack of a competent management team, (IMO) doesn’t guarantee a successful rebuild?

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  57. All that and there are 8 others teams with worse records, most with 1 or 2 top line players.
    What does that tell you?

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  58. If it is a successful rebuild they should be laying the foundation now. There is no one on the roster or in the pipe line that I have any confidence in being the corner stone of the franchise going forward. That includes DQ. Pionk might be if he was a little bigger and more skilled defensively. He certainly gives them everything he has. Howden? Chytil? Andersson? He might be drafted this year or next year. Until that happens they are treading water in the deep end of the pool.

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  59. SN
    It tells you that it’s an underperforming treading water team with a rookie head coach that doesn’t have players that drive play physically or with the puck.

    It also tells you that it doesn’t have players in the top positions that have a consistent motor and work ethic.

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  60. Concern may be to strong a word, but I’m going to use it anyway. The concern on this team should not be about Zucc, and Namestnikov, it should be about Chytil, Howden, Andersson, Pionk, and DeAngelo. Despite what the Chytil maniacs think, Chytil has not progressed this season. That’s a concern. Howden has not scored a goal in quite some time, but he’s a bit different than Chytil in that he has an idea as to what he is doing in his own zone. If he develops on O game, you have the makings of a number two center, if not you have a solid number three. I happen to think Andersson is right where he belongs, playing in Hartford. It’s where I think Chytil should be as well. In Hartford, developing. The concern with Andersson is his skating. Can he improve it enough so that his skill set can thrive in the NHL. Pionk is the number one Dman on this team, and that’s a problem. I like Pionk, but to me, at best he’s a 2nd pair guy. More likely he’s a third pair guy. TonyD? Well I don’t believe the Rangers think he has a future with them. What I would love to see from him is, for him to say screw it, I’m going for it. The cuffs are on him. He’s a guy that needs to play free of the system, and you live with his mistakes.

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  61. Again guys, not a full rebuild. It certainly could be in the future and should be imo, but as it stands today, it is not.

    Look at full rebuild teams in the past, doesn’t look like this at all. This team has too many (despite how they are playing) mid aged nhl vets (in their prime or just getting there) and very few young part of the future players.

    Not to mention a goalie that can still get you points on nights when the team doesn’t deserve it thus not allowing the team to bottom out for a lottery pick.

    Reality is, and it’s evident in Gorton’s comments and hank’s since the PR genius move, they are going to get what they can this season regardless of record and go for it in free agency and expect to be in the playoffs next season or really close whether we like it or not.

    Not a full or long rebuild.

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  62. until the roster turns over into one with players that can be successful playing the way Quinn wants this is what it’ll be. Been square pegs and round holes since camp.
    I still say Chytil has potential to get off BDL’s crap list.
    He shouldn’t have been thrown into the NHL as if he was ready to compete on an NHL level. The issue at its core is that they haven’t had any depth and the guys they have plugged holes with have been ineffectual.
    Read: beyond Howden Chytil Andersson there aren’t any young forwards here that can help anytime soon.

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  63. BDL mostly agree but as others have pointed out, who is Don C going to play with in Hartford? Minutes yes but not sure they are better minutes. Anderson can certainly improve his skating in the offseason by working with a specialist coach. Any number of players have done so with very positive results.

    I really don’t know what Pionk will be three years from now but I think he will be at least a number two. This is a kid who is playing huge minutes in what is really his rookie season on a team with defensively deficient forwards. And he has done mostly ok. D’Anger is a different story – he has 97 games now over three years and with ATOI of over 17 m. Has he really progressed much at all defensively or offensively? Have to say I expected more from him defensively this season figuring he would use the summer and new coaching staff as an opportunity to really step up his game.

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  64. Did anyone else take this Post headline literally? “FBI confirms El Chapo seen in video grilling man chained to pole” I guess I’m just jaded.

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  65. Well, if they are using the treading water approach, it appears they will be drowning in their sorrows and Gorton will need to pen another letter to his future employer on why he should be given the reigns to make talent decisions for another NHL franchise.
    .
    Must remember that the Knicks have been in perpetual rebuild mode for some time, so there is precedent for patience from Dolan, or at least, some flexibility. Of course in the NBA, you can try to buy pieces and much easier to play fantasy GM which is why the Knicks have been a tire fire for some time.

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  66. James – I agree Cheadle is being assessed waaaayyyy too early in his career. He has the physical tools and proved when pared with two productive players, Kreider and Hayes, he can get on the score sheet, even at this young age. Has a great motor and just tries to do too much by himself; which is correctable.
    .
    Howden is rock steady and will be a 20-30-50 two way 2C within 2 or 3 seasons. NHL hit their peak production between the ages of 24-26.
    .
    Pionk is painful to watch in Dzone and paired with Blind Melon is no help, but has some heart and can play on one side of the ice. Love to see him with Lindgren or Hayek when they come up later in season.
    .
    Andersson will never live down his draft position (see Strome, Ryan), but has the makings of a 3C+, higher is he can find the next gear.
    .
    Tony D is the enigma. Love the fire, the offensive instincts but may be his own worst enemy. Was talking to someone who watched his play in youth hockey and said he was the same guy so you wonder if his lack of control will sink him.

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  67. Chytil is 19 …one of youngest players in the league..he has wheels and a good shot …he will be fine. Think they all will be with possible exception of Tony D. Like his game but he’s a bit of a head case. Still needs to play more before making any decisions on him. By the way the Buchnevich fan club has been awful quiet since he re-joined team

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  68. To add to that point, SN- look at the two top picks from ‘17. Both 20 years old and started in the nhl. They’ve combined for 17 goals this year. Doesn’t mean either are busts. I don’t watch philly or Nj much but I assume they aren’t flawless every night. if Either of them were Rangers?
    They would be getting negative feed back every night. The first and second overall picks.
    Chytil has a long way to go. This isn’t a defense of what’s gone on this season with him. I personally think he’d be in Hartford if they had alternative personnel that could play effective minutes every night

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  69. Ironic in a sense how some make the connection between SkjeL benefiting from having McQuaid yet no one makes the connection to how Pionk and DeAngelo haven’t looked great while paired with the likes of Shatty and Smith.

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  70. Serious Q: Which young Rangers have shown improvement this season, either from last season or the start of this one? I thought Quinn’s main point in getting hired was development. Hayes and Kreider have been markedly improved, but one or both won’t be here when the younger core actualizes.

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  71. What youth has improved?
    Shea when paired with Lone Wolf and playing within himself has played much better. Leads the team in hits, but I don’t remember one of them save for laying out Kog at MSG early in season.
    Tony D has looked ok when able to stay on ice whether through his own fault or coach’s decision.
    Zika has looked better – is he considered young – only 25 yo. Still weak in D-zone and bullied around the wall, but offensively has made better decisions with puck.
    Pionk has looked the same, maybe better shot than last season; hard to assess playing with One-eyed Willie.
    Boo has impressed in his recent stint. Very good wheels and hockey instincts.
    Georgie Porgie has looked solid at times and other times, overwhelmed facing the firing squad.
    Names – is he considered young? just turned 26 yo?? Plays all 3 zones, but has hands of stone; should have 15 goals with chances he gets along with PP TOI. .
    Butch – same old, same old. Not willing to pay the price, perimeter player. KHL All Star.
    VC – Does anyone miss more in close scoring chances. Can’t finish and has trouble starting as well. Defensive shell. On pace for 20-22-42 so not all bad. Needs to pick it up.

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  72. I would disagree with Howden. Howden impressed everyone in camp and made the team. He started off a bit inconsistent but showing some promise. He was one of the better players early in the season. Since that time he has fallen off a cliff. Rookie wall, maybe, but it’s a bit early in the season for the rookie wall, especially from a kid that was playing junior. He’s got 1 point in his last 18 games. 0 goals in his last 24. That’s more than half the season!

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  73. Reda on tsn yesterday talking about how all the younger rfa’s and ufa’s are going to look at 4,5, or 6 years deals so they can get 2 big paydays. That the smart move for players in the low 20 age groups will still be in mid twenties instead of late twenties or 30 when they are due for their next contract.

    Smart business to maximize $$$$.

    Older ufa players 30ish will still look for longer 7 or 8 year deals for security.

    Logic from a talking head for once.

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  74. Where is the list of 20 yo centers performing above draft position while playing pivot and not wing? Most are moved over to lessen the burden.
    Kid has definitely hit a wall. Center is THE hardest position to play in the league. The wall for pivots is different than for defenseman and wingers, esp on a crappy team.
    Tage Thompson taken 1 pick before Howden is playing wing and has 18 pts in 77 games.
    .
    Still believe Commish Gorton was taken to the cleaners by Tampa. When you trade McD and Miller, you need to get Sarge and Cerilli instead of Hayek and Howden.

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  75. Doodie,
    Not that you mentioned Chytil, but the difference between Chytil and Howden, is that Howden has an idea as to what he is doing in all three zones. Chytil is good from the offensive circles down. The rest of the ice he is lost.

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  76. Whiskey
    If your 10:16 is correct
    I’m getting off this train for good. I’m not watching hockey for mercenaries trying to win a cup. I want them to build a team I can watch play for a bunch of them. F the next 2 years. It’s all about the next 5

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  77. Howden was the best young forward not named point to get from Tampa (I believe I was saying that before the deal as well) and he’s going to be an above average nhl centre, top 6 imo.

    If you take some of the players out of the Tampa scoring machine, how will they do (see the governor, aka Namestnikov).

    So I would be careful trying to compare apples to oranges.

    Howden has a helluva hockey IQ, much better than the golden child and has a positive impact in all three zones. If he isn’t scoring he’s still contributing which is exactly what you need from every player that isn’t an elite goal scorer.

    As for Hajek, I’d prefer sergachev or foote most definitely.

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  78. SN
    I agree the return should have been better. Just reinforces my point, Lack of a competent management team. Yzerman is still laughing!

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  79. I agree that the Rangers were hosed by Yzerman and Tampa. Just like they were when they traded for St.Louis. I think that when you deal a guy like McDonagh, the deadline is not the time to do so. If you know you are not going to re-sign him, you move him in the Summer. Every club can be involved then. Dealing complimentary players at the deadline is fine. But that fact that the Rangers did not get Sergachev, Foote, Cirelli, someone of that level in a deal for McD and Miller is not acceptable. Yzerman has been an excellent GM for Tampa.

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Jpp
    I’d love a full rebuild, Just don’t think they are done anymore in the sense that most of us want.

    Teams do it on the fly while trying to win as much as possible. They move out expiring or soon to be expiring contracts, try to get assets to restock on the fly as they go, then sign free agents that are upgrades over players they have….rinse, repeat.

    I’d love to see an actual full rebuild where guys with term of 3 or 4 years are moved out, you retain salary if necessary or buyout guys because the next 3-5 years are about bringing in the youth you’ve gained in moving those guys and develop them, give them playing time at their long term position etc….

    At this point, nothing close to that.

    Like

  81. If you aren’t getting Sarge, you don’t make that deal. I believe Hedman was banged up also which increased the urgency for TB. In fact, neither McD nor Miller HAD to be traded at deadline.
    Get more return then? Debatable now…
    Also Jeffrey unable to unload Zucc because too busy. Whatever, he also should have been dealt during summer. What the heck were they doing then?

    Liked by 1 person

  82. Bdl
    Agree re sergachev, just saying I’d prefer him over Hajek.

    I’d still take foote over Hajek. Skating is overrated

    Like

  83. Yup, Zucc needed to be gone. He needed to be gone before last season, and then he needed to be gone at the deadline, and then he needed to be gone over the summer, and now he needs to gone yesterday. Do you know why Zucc is not gone? It’s because he’s not any good, and other teams know that. Easily the most overrated player in Ranger history.

    Like

  84. The ducks just seem like the logical spot for zucc. Then, once he gets done with his tantrum about being trade and their season ends, he can get a job at Disneyland as Minnie Mouse.

    Liked by 1 person

  85. Wicky

    they really only have 2 guys whose contract lasts beyond next year and are not either
    an entry level guy or severely overpaid (the S guys on d and Henrik). Those 2 being Mika and Brady. So it will be very hard to meet your definition of a full rebuild no matter what they do.

    buyouts are not cheap and just spread the pain into additional years.

    things will be better down the road but buyouts and signing ufas (who will be the next guys we want bought out) are not the way to go at this point in the rebuild (my definition not yours). hopefully they do no more than 1 high priced ufa this summer and i’d rather it be zero.

    Like

  86. When your 5’6, over 30, malfunctioning, having trouble putting sentences together, creating penalties by charging blindly onto the ice when the man you’re replacing is still out there, 50 feet away, and you having almost died not that far off…..time to put all your millions of shekels into one big pile and ride off smiling into the Norwegian sunset.

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Wicky,
    There are Ranger fans out there who think Zucc is going to bring back a first round pick! If Gorton gets a first rounder for Zucc, he should go directly into the Hall of Fame.

    Like

  88. James
    I’ll catch some of it when I’m off work (hate these early start times), most on dvr later.

    Like

  89. How do you draft a center #7 overall when he doesn’t skate well enough to keep up with the NHL pace? Skating is probably the easiest skill to evaluate. Most boneheads observed and commented on this weakness after a week of watching him. It’s eyeopening how Gorton and crew missed this.

    Like

  90. Landeskog is one hell of a captain. Did a great job with that bench issue last night for the avs imo.

    Like

  91. PB,
    They clearly either overlooked it, or did not think it would be that big a factor. The way the game is played today, I don’t think Andersson can be a top 9 center. I think he needs to move to the wing. And that’s to bad. He has the head the be a very good 2/3 center. I’m still a believer, but that belief is on the wing.

    Like

  92. Prucha is a good one Doodie. But he was just overrated by the fan base. Zucc is overrated by the fan base, by the coaching staff, the media, and the front office.

    Like

  93. On another note, I sure as Hell hope gorton uses his Boston connection with chirelli before chirelli gets canned to fleece him.

    Like

  94. Wicky, I disagree. I think it’s not the hardest thing to fix (vision/IQ IMO), but anything with the stick is much, much easier to fix than skating. Boyle gave a great interview on the 30 Thoughts podcast and he talked about going to Barb.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. Pete
    Yes, but that’s skill related. They aren’t exclusive and too many folks try to make them that.

    Like

  96. BDL are you back to the “move everyone to wing and trade everyone else” routine?
    Take a breath. It’s going to be okay.

    Like

  97. I’ve never seen so many players dissected with such negativity and over scrutinizing.

    The NHL should hire half this blog as scouts. Yous have a talent none of the actual scouts have- you can decide which 18,19 and 20 year olds will have a career and who will be a bust. Incredible.

    Like

  98. Yes James.
    Actually just Andersson. I think that’s his best spot for success. I think Chytil needs to be playing CENTER! I find it interesting that even with Hayes out, Chytil is still on the wing. Do they now think the wing is his position? They are making a mess of this kids season.

    Liked by 1 person

  99. James hasn’t figured out yet thatseveral people on the blog are posting under fake names and on the rangers payroll…sad

    Liked by 2 people

  100. I think you can trade Fast, Namestnikov, and Vesey. But I don’t think the return ( draft picks) would be worth it.

    Like

  101. No matter how you shake it, the signings of Shatty and Smith were the two anvils dropped through the deck of the SS NYRangers.
    After another kick at the can, they should have kicked AV to the curb and smacked Gorton across the face.

    Like

  102. I also think they can trade Staal, but they would have to eat half his cap hit, and I’m not really sure what he would bring back. I do not believe they can trade Shattenkirk ( this year), or Smith.

    Like

  103. I’d listen to offers on anyone, but I’d agree with the list bdl put up.

    There are only a handful of guys on the current team I have any interest in seeing back next season.

    Like

  104. BDL you keep harping on Chytil as if I’ve tried to justify him being a full time NHL player or something. I don’t disagree that he’s been lacking majorly in most areas.
    What I’ve said is that I believe he’s here because any alternative would infact be worse.

    As for Andersson you’re entitled to your opinion. You have made cases for Zibanejad and Hayes playing wing as well.
    Maybe the solution is to acquire some wings and cut bait with centers who can’t play center?

    Like

  105. I think they should acquire d that can play d, move our current d to centres, move our centres to wing, trade or buy out all our wings except for McLeod and Namestnikov and have them play goal, take our current goalies out behind msg and shoot them and everything will be fine!

    Liked by 1 person

  106. Skating is the most correctable and overrated skill of any prospect (see Boyle, Brian)

    This exactly
    I have no doubt a kid like andersson will put in the work to become a better stronger skater. A kid who cares that much will most surely put in the work. I mean what it is really. Stengthening your core and the right leg muscles, working on foot speed off the ice and doing all sorts of skating drills and what not on the ice. Skating is the easiest thing to get better at. It’s hard to get better at the things Lias has in spades. I have no concerns with him, and I don’t care whether he ends up at c or the wing. He’s gonna be who we should he would be. I’d put my money behind that kid.

    Like

  107. Of course I put out a list like the one bdl did before the season and James freaked out

    Like

  108. Also, I think you trade Staal/Smith/Shatty In order to not have Staal/Smith/Shatty.
    There are differences between a hockey trade (value for value), a fire sale type trade (value/experience for players of the future), and having to eliminate a problem. Half the blue line fits under that last category.
    They’re not going to be able to trade trash for a shiny new toy.

    Liked by 1 person

  109. Same with howden.
    And the day chytil becomes as doggedly a competitor as howden and andersson, I won’t have any doubts he’ll become a player.

    Like

  110. Summer of 2017 what could/should have they got for the moves made that summer, players moved at the following deadline and one they should have moved.
    Step for Tony D and no $6.5M per
    Raanta for ’17 R1 Ariz
    Signed Smith; 4 years
    Signed Shatty 4 Years
    .
    McD for Howden, Hayek, ’19 R2/1
    Nash for ’18 R1, Ryan Spooner, Matt Beleskey, and Ryan Lindgren
    Miller for Namestnikov
    Grabner for Rykov and NJD ’18 R2
    Zucc for ___
    .
    Hard to imagine they could not have done some hockey trades to bring back pro ready level talent. Vegas Expansion draft was a fly in the ointment as well.

    Liked by 1 person

  111. James,
    I don’t think i have ever been in favor of playing Hayes on the wing. As far as Zibanejad, if you are moving one them to the wing, I would move Zibanejad. But I don’t think I have ever been in favor of that either. Trading them, yes. On the wing, no.

    Like

  112. When I first starting working in BK and going to a bunch of games in 2007-2010 and then started working on the road and saw them everywhere. I used to play headgames with the rangers. I would yell at them to play as it were a game 7, down 3-1 in 2nd period of a game in the middle of January. Yelling tell yourself it’s game 7 and you need to come back. Against PPs I used to screams at other teams they were getting nothing and at our boys to make me look good. Create little challenges, put some money on it, $200 bucks to next guy who scores, whatever, trick yourselves out in thinking your playing in the playoffs like we would as kids Everytime we ever played. There’s so many ways and reasons to get into the game. Your playing Fking hockey. It’s the greatest sport ever. If the players weren’t playing it for a living, they’d be killing to play it in the conditions and at the level the players do.

    They say one of the best ways to build confidence is to continually create little challenges that you have a good chance of succeeding on based on your abilities and goals. And you build on that

    Like

  113. Either way, if you are intent on a full re-stew, it’s not that difficult to move a half dozen guys or so between the deadline and draft.

    You move guys to teams that are making the playoff push.

    You move guys to teams that aren’t going to or can’t pay their current ufa/rfa players as similar or as close as you can get performance but that are already locked in to a contract more palatable for your team.

    Just have to have a set of onions and do it.

    Like

  114. You wanna what happened during those years.

    The likes of Crosby and oveckin and those cats would end up scoring or ending up winning games. But the players would come out after a goal and get right to it because the more little successes they had they more they believed they could and it energized them and made them work hard, bc they saw how most of the time it won out or canceled out pure talent, and then the better the team got, they were able to shut down those guys and get the offense and they were battle ready all the time bc of how they got there.

    Like

  115. Zibanejad on the wing is a bird that can’t fly. See what I did there? The wing is no place for a soft center who’s a DJ!

    Like

  116. And AV took over that team, loosen the reins and once they got used to his system, rode it to a finals and then presidents trophy and conference final game 7 where that light started flickering out. The mindset changed. It was disappointment and guys were worn out and it crumbled. Wasn’t the flexibility or the pieces to add to the group, and it had to broken up.

    Like

  117. Wicky,
    You hit on a good one. Trade with teams that are making a playoff push. Those teams are libel to be a bit more desperate, and their draft picks a bit more valuable.

    Like

  118. If you look around the league and see all the ex Rangers playing on contending teams, and still playing good hockey, I’m still not convinced that they needed to blow it up. New coach, yes, kaboom, not convinced.

    Liked by 1 person

  119. It’s time to build to back up.
    There are no shortcuts bc the mindset is not even close yet. You can put a team together on paper but that means jack. Vegas is comparably to no one, bc of the uniqueness of the team dynamic there from the start-
    ‘We were all outcasts. Our teams didn’t want us, this is our team now’
    and gallant was the perfect coach for it.
    That ain’t happening to anybody else. Seattle included bc there is built in pressure due to Vegas’ Success.

    I’m all for a Miami Heat summer, if you land Lebron, wade, and bosh. Not for amare stoudmaire and melo.

    And even if you land EK and AP, you still don’t shortcut it. Let them surprise next year, hope it’s simmering in 20-21

    Like

  120. I disagree BDL.
    I love those guys so much. My favorite era of rangers players so far. But it wasn’t happening. They didn’t have the top horse or two, and guys were started to get worn down, the guys in Tampa are surrounded by great players so it’s not as heavy a burden, 5 man units make everyone better when everyone’s good.

    The rangers are doing the right thing. It’s just the thick of it and what else is there to debate.

    Like

  121. Commissioner O’Neill
    ‏Verified account
    @NYPDONeill

    Today we mark the 2nd anniversary of #NYPD Det. Steven McDonald’s line-of-duty death. Shot & paralyzed in 1986, this heroic man spent the rest of his extraordinary life delivering a message of forgiveness & love. He was, & always will be, a passionate force for good in our world.

    Liked by 1 person

  122. BDL, I disagree. Show me one former key NYR that is on a contender that is proof of that. If you point to any of the Tampa guys, I think you’re willfully ignoring the Rangers’ lack of players like Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos, Point, and others.

    Like

  123. My Tyraid? Some people here want to trade or buy out 3/4 of the current roster. That’s rational?

    SN, I remember you tearing most of those moves apart last deadline.
    My outlook hasn’t changed about last season’s deals and it won’t change this year- the guys we are trading /have traded are over valued by Rangers fans. That’s why people suggest things like Nylander for Zibanejad and Vesey.
    We weren’t getting Sergschev and Point for Mcdonagh.
    We weren’t getting Jake DeBrusk for Nash. And we weren’t getting a first round pick and or an nhl ready prospect for Grabner. Just like we aren’t getting god knows who for Zucc or Hayes or Shatty.
    I think they did a good job to this point when you take into account of what they actually had to offer.
    That being said I think that they had too high of aspirations about Andersson and Chytil making impacts this season.
    But you don’t just watch a couple kids play half a season on a really bad team and write them off.

    Like

  124. Doodie I think that’s the whole point- if this organization had anything that resembled elite talent in the mix then all these guys people have in their cross hairs would be nothing more than complimentary players or playing in the AHL.

    Like

  125. Doodie,
    I’m not saying it didn’t need to happen, just that I think it’s possible they pulled the plug a little early. And I’ll toss this back at you, how good is Tampa right now without, McDonagh, Stralman, Girardi, and Miller?

    Liked by 1 person

  126. James,
    A rebuild usually includes trading away most of your roster. That’s what this is, a rebuild. Pick out a handful of guys you want to go forward with, and the rest are trade assets. As far as giving up on Chytil or Andersson, I have not done that. I still believe Andersson is going to be at the very least, a good NHL player, and Chytil has skill like no other Rangers prospect. But Chytil needs to learn how to play the game in order to hit his full potential. It bothers me that he’s not, and they don’t hold him accountable.

    Liked by 2 people

  127. Hockey trades needed to be made after Ott series, instead sent Auntie and Step off for futures and spit the bit.
    Henk and Krieder are the only first liners left to deal. Shampoo boy won’t leave his yacht so its so long Chris and hello more futures to wait and see about.
    .

    Liked by 1 person

  128. I agree SN. I’ll go back a bit further. They missed a big opportunity with Yandle. Should have moved him for futures. Could have started to add to the prospect pool while continuing to compete.

    Liked by 2 people

  129. The IPAS are cold…I have my foam brick in hand and all is set for the game vs the Brooklyn Azzdancers…
    Only negative is the blow up doll has a leak and my Sather Patch kit is not working…

    Like

  130. That’s why I’ve looked at this as more of a re-tool, BDL. Since the day they signed Spooner and namestnikov its been about treading water.

    Believe me, I’d welcome the trade of anyone on this roster if it makes them better.

    Now be nice to me, I’m post op 😛

    Liked by 1 person

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