I don’t mind to keep both for reasonable price (when it comes to HZie), but if the question is either or, I easily take Ziba over HZ (how you say it?) 6 times a week and twice at Saturday and Sunday (don’t know what that supposed to mean anyway…). Ziba is more mature, consistent and has more resolve, drive and talent and less hesitant that this, too often annoying, slouchy HZie. Besides, we have now more than enough coming centers, so risk is minimal – some of them, by the law of big numbers, will work right. After all, Hayes is not such a key player, who will carry this club on his shoulders. Far from it. Will be no regrets from me.
I don’t see the need to keep Hayes and Zbad long term. Given Zbad concussion history I would look to move him this year and I would be inclined to give Hayes the long term deal (5yrs tops) at 5.75(max), so long as there isn’t NMC. If they can’t come to terms, they should keep Zbad and trade haze ASAP, possibly as a package to increase value. A trade to a bottom 5 team would be best to increase chance for overall #1 in 2019. It will be great to see Gorton have the #1 overall pick and instead of taking the consensus #1 pick, he goes “off the board”. Read an article on top 50 league prospects and the only Ranger on the list was Chytl. Fishsticks had 3 top 50 prospects, including the two the Rangers past on this year.
Good morning, boneheads!
The more I think about the more I feel that this whole debate about Hayes vs Zibanejad is a little premature and based solely on LB’s interpretation. They do not have to be mutually exclusive.
For me it’s not based on LB article, it’s about seeing what’s right in front of my face. You have the two 1st round picks in Andersson and Chytil that are going to need to be top 9. Plus you have a very highly thought of prospect in Howden who is going to be knocking on the door very soon. Something has to give at center. That something is either Hayes or Zibanejad. Hence the debate.
Hayes will be thrilled on a one year deal moving to the wing. A choice is eventually going to have to be made to maximize the value of the center position. If you wait till the deadline to trade Hayes, you will eliminate 2/3 of the teams. Leaving a handful that would be in on a rental. Move him, or Zibanejad now, you have the entire league in which to deal with.
So for all the disappointment/anger about Kravstov – Wahlstrom will not be playing for the A$$landers this year. So if our guy plays after his KHL season finishes then i take back everything i ever said about OTBG
Brooks is looking at the “Trade Hayes” story because he (wrongly) assumes that Chytil, Andersson, Zika and Hayes can only play center and none of them will play 4th line and that Hayes can’t be paid and center the “3rd” line.
Why would you trade away a big bodied C/RW unless you’re filling other holes on your roster? Unless the trade includes a top pair D, why shift him? If he won’t sign long term, then take the 1-yr and flip him after Christmas for as much as you can get
What player is the proxy to award Haze a $5.75M x 5 yr deal?
I would give him 2 yr deal @$5M and if he performs, pay him market rate if the pups don’t step up, but if he doesn’t than not on the hook for middle wing at bloated contract for another 3 seasons.
Zika should be on the wing – Kreider-Haze-Zika would be a fun line to watch
VC-Cheadle-Butch or Zucc
I don’t think the issue on Hayes is the money per se. The figures thrown around are, whether we like it or not, about what he would get on open market. Personally, I think you can sign him to a five year deal and still move him at the deadline (probably easier) if you a) aren’t in contention and b) believe the kiddies are making big strides.
The reason I think the NYR are not pulling the trigger is they fear a regression and return to slacker Hayes once he gets the big check.
You don’t move Hayes until you see how the other young centers develop…even then he would be fine on the wing, sign him long term and he will still have value….just make sure it does not include no trade
The NMC is the issue to me. They have the cap space to sign him. If he signs for around market value he can be moved. They have lots of centers and LHDs in the pipeline now. They need to stay flexible so that they can move people based on which one of the prospects pan out. Also if Hayes breaksout under the new coaching staff the price will be a bargain.
His movement clause(s), even if he gets one, won’t kick in until after this season because of his UFA eligibility. Interestingly, if he gets long term contract with NMC/NTC and gets traded during this season, his new team isn’t obligated to honor them.
Lets not forget Hayes is patient…he stayed in college and waited out the Hawks to shape his own career so when it comes to gambling this could go right to the doors of the arbitration hearing before its settled and if it goes to a hearing he’ll just play the system.
In terms of players i think he could benefit big time from having Quinn as coach
The Youths could play fourth line center. Thorton played on the fourth line for the Bruins his first year and he worked out OK. These guys are not MCDavid. They can move up if they earn it. Names and Spooner are wings if they are on the team come October.
Carp,
What is more likely to occur, either Hayes, or Zibanejad move to the wing? Or the Rangers are willing to have Andersson or Chytil center the 4th line?
While Hayes may not seen like the sharpest tool in the shed, he’s brash, has advisors who school him on what’s best for him and he does what’s best for Him. That’s how he ended up a ranger. The guy will not sign anything other than a 1 year this year. He won’t sign without a full NMC clause and he can’t get one for this season, so why would he sign long term when he knows the rangers have been looking for trade him. He signs long term and he opens up the can of possibilities that he could be traded this year somewhere he doesn’t want to play and he’s signed for 4+ seasons.
If I’m Hayes my best play for my own interests is to only sign a 1 yr deal, so I expect that is what he is going to do
So a 50 pt center makes $5.5M+ over 5 years? Sign Haze for the one year and move if he doesn’t produce and/or regresses. To note, if he signs for 5 years, he will be 32 when contract is over. The Kevin Hayes Era…
.
Re new coach, one can say anybody will play better with new voice but AV gave him EVERY opportunity to succeed while he was coach. Maybe Quinn will instruct him to shoot more …
Carp, I’d rather use him as a trade piece. Problem is, we don’t know what we have in Chytil/Andersson/Howden yet…. but that shouldn’t be an excuse to lock Hayes up for 5 years. I just feel like he’s a prime example of what we should be trying to distance ourselves from. Yes, he’s defensively responsible and will net you a few goals… but, he’s not a battler and won’t throw his weight around when the game gets gritty and the rink gets small. That’s my issue with him. I don’t think he’s worth the term or the cap space. But, what do I know…. That’s why I’m not an NHL GM.
So what do the Rangers do if they sign Haze long term and fall to say 28th, they luck out and win the lottery. They now have Chytil, Lias, Howden, Haze, and DJ Mika, do they select Jack Hughes? It could happen. Would this organization screw that up? Imagine OTB Gordie and Jeffie trying to figure that out!
NMC seems to be the issue to me. He has more value if you trade him to someone who has control over him for several years at a market rate rather than as a rental..
BTW, so Spooner get sloopy fourths or fifths after Vesey, Names, SkejL and Hayes? Still wonder if he turned down a deal likes Names took.
If you don’t sign him long term you trade him at the deadline. Can’t let him walk for nothing. And some people did love Blair Betts and Tanner Glass. Some of those people were not even related to them.
BDL, have to disagree with you on when to trade him. Gotta set him up as an asset. Give him heavy offensive zone starts against weak competition and a lot of PP time. Inflate that value.
Also disagree with BdL
Teams now that aren’t expecting to be in mix aren’t buyers and want to see what their own young talent have or have budgets that won’t open for a trade unless they prove to be contenders. At the deadline playoff teams are hungry and bidding against each other and are willing to empty cupboards to go on a run. Too many unknowns for a lot of teams at this juncture.
The way the pranced everybody’s favorite Doritos munching Masshole, you would have thunk he was part of the long term plan. Maybe not a good influence on the prodigal son; Shea in the Naked City.
There are going to be maybe a half dozen teams to trade him to at the deadline. Which means a late first round pick, and a prospect, and he’d be a rental. The value in trading him would be before he signed the one year deal. The teams possibly trading for him could lock him up long term. They would pay more for that, and that would open up the entire league for them. Lousy job by Gorton. Poor assets management.
If you’re a Hayes fan, this isn’t good news. Either he has a bad year and we let him walk, or he has a great year and we can’t afford him.
If you’re a Hayes detractor – this is great news. No long term commitment and he’s likely gone at the deadline.
I fall in the middle. I don’t think he’s shown he can keep it together consistently enough to be an impact player in this league. But he does have the skill. And if he DOES put it together, he’s a star.
This bugs Gorton time to see how things shake out with the kids. And if Hayes has a monster contract year, his rental price skyrockets.
The best value for him was before July 5th. My guess Gorton tried and couldn’t get what he wanted for him. Now it’s trade deadline. They might attempt to resign him in January, but seems unlikely for many reasons.
So Gorton is keeping his options open. If Chytl and Andersen (and Howden?) blow everyone’s doors off he can move Hayes. If not re can try to extend him or trade him. This has all got to be done by January. SkejL is the only one they committed to long term. We have to hope he is right or it may indeed stop being funny after a couple of years.
To make it worse, this probably means Zibanejad is here to stay. BDL as a young fan would have loved Zibanejad. Now having seen so many Zibanejad type players, I see him for what he is, a tease of a player. He will never be as good as his talent says he should be. He will show you just enough to keep you hooked with the hope that this is the year he finally puts it all together. He will pile up the points against the lesser teams, and score some goals in garbage time against the good teams. he will score his goals on the PP on the perimeter, and score off the rush. But he won’t score much from the dirty areas because he won’t go there.
Haze will never be a star/1C in this league based upon his first four seasons; his mental make up on the ice prevents him from taking his game to the next level; too much cutesy dipsy doo, not enough straight ahead hockey. That and is skating is problematic, as in, he is slow.
.
Are there players who suddenly break out and become first line stars in their fifth and sixth full season in the league at age 27 & 28?
.
Package him mid-season and go with the ‘lose for Hughes’ strategy.
SN,
I know this not a fair comparison going back as far as I’m going to go right now, but the guy who Hayes has always reminded me of, Jean Ratelle, did just that. Broke out during his age 26 to 32 years. I think Hayes is primed to do just that, break out.
OK, anyone in the last 30 years in the modern era. To be fair, Ratelle had a bad back injury which kept him from a full slate, played wing and also could skate.
.
Haze’s ceiling is a solid 2C who will shrink when the lights shine bright in the POs and he has to get greasy goals in the dirty areas around the crease in the second season.
But they should have torn it after that loss to Pitt.
That was the golden unexpected opportunity. Hindsight the decision looks so easy. I would have made the hard decision then. Knew these last two years were coming. Was genuinely surprised when a path opened for them in 16-17, thought it might have been fate. Instead they blew it against an Ottawa team that gave them every chance to beat them.
Mac and step for hall/draistl and the 4oA. Chiarelli would have pulled the trigger. Both players signed long term at the time.
Are you confusing Ratelle and Gilbert? I know Gilbert had a back injury, and he played the wing. I don’t remember Ratelle having a back injury ( he may have, I just don’t remember), and Ratelle was a center.
And unlike some teams, Gorton will use that added cap space to sign a guy like Panerin or Duchene if he gets the chance.
BobbyO- i wouldn’t be surprised. If Hayes doesn’t have his best year yet, it won’t be for lack of effort or focus. He’s playing for July 1st and that’s going to up his value, even if he will only be a rental for whoever gets him in the spring.
when a team doesn’t win a cup it’s very easy to point to an alternative universe. there’s really no negative to something that didn’t happen at least supported by facts .
“Are there players who suddenly break out and become first line stars in their fifth and sixth full season in the league at age 27 & 28?”
Jean Ratelle is the one that sticks out in my mind. WELL before my time, but for some reason the fact that he didn’t start scoring at a star clip until he was a bit older always stuck with me. However, it was his 2nd full season. He had an earlier season of 50-something games, and a lot of bouncing between minors and bigs before then. I gotta think that minor pro seasons have to count for something though.
Vic Hadfield was a grinder until he got put on a line with Ratelle and Gilbert and scored 50 goals at age 31.
MSL another one, but like Ratelle…he was older but it was his 3rd or 4th NHL season.
Our old friend Mike Knuble fits this mold perfectly. Depth player, then finally gets his shot on a top line at age 30 and goes on to score a ton.
Billy Guerin was a solid 2nd liner for the Devils for a long time, goes to Edmonton, and spends the rest of his career as a top-line player.
Brad Marchand is another late bloomer, in terms of first line production. Blake Wheeler was always a nice player to have, and he’s suddenly a star. It took Alex Radulov a ton of time and 2 trips overseas to find himself as a top liner. Joe Pavelski, always a good 2nd line center, suddenly took a huge step up around age 28, and got even better over the next few years. Robert Lang was the ultimate late bloomer, and put up first-line numbers for a few years.
It’s not totally out there that a guy hits his stride at 27ish…even if it’s been 4-6 years of inconsistency and frustrating potential.
Ratelle’s hockey career almost ended at age 23 when he suffered a serious back injury and had to undergo major spinal cord surgery.
When he finally played full seasons he produced. Yes, was a centre.
Pavelski was a real late bloomer…
At 24. 2008–09 80 25 34 59
At 25. 2009–10 67 25 26 51
At 26. 2010–11 74 20 46 66
.
Had trouble staying on The ice with injuries caused by, ya know, going to the net but he produced as a 2C as Jumbo was always 1C
Let’s put it this way. If its trivia and the question is asked. Fast is included or the answer is wrong. I’m just naming names. And assuming zucc may be gone by camp
Alex
If you were around the blog back then. Youd know I was calling for it immediately after Game 5 and never backed down from gutting it ever since. But you either weren’t here or were lurking so you think it’s hindsight
Mind you I actually started calling for it after those two home games against Tampa in the ECF only to take a step back once we heard about the 3 one-legged D mac’s foot in game 7
This team showed it didn’t have that final element needed to win. That guy. And they were never gonna get that guy into the salary structure of that group or in time for that group.
16-17: wild card route, Ottawa. Rangers were just lucky to get that route, played well for 6 games and imploded over the next 7 and lost to Ottawa.
Pitt steamrolled us out of what became in hindsight a 4 year window 11-12/14-15 and went on to repeat.
Mind you once more. Leading up to that ECF final loss. I was the biggest freakin glorified cheerleader you could get without paying me. I didn’t drink the koolaid, I was the koolaid. I believed in that group until I just knew that group wasn’t gonna get it done and it wasn’t really any of their faults. And That it would be smart to make the call right then and there.
Ahh Alex,
I’ve gotten sidetracked in this little verbiage with you. Sorry bud
I didn’t post my thoughts to have you coin it as alternative universe anymore than I did it to engage in this verbiage with you. Haha so on that note. Your free to your opinions and I’m free to mine. Enjoy your porthole of the universe
Hopefully Hayes doesn’t become a soap opera during the season. If they somehow are in playoff contention and he is playing well it will controversial to trade him. If they stink no one will care. Let’s see if either side talks about an extension or if after this Hayes just wants to move on. He could feel like he got dissed after SkejL got the long money. Where’s Jimmy playing these days?
Based on how the summer’s gone, you’d think Spooner gets a 1 year deal, a chance to see how he’s does, how the kids are doing and whether Gorton wants to deal him at the deadline. Or maybe they deal him now for a middle round pick?
Hayes, Zibanejad, Andersson, Chytil, Kreider, Vesey, Namestnikov, Buchnevich, Zucc, Spooner, and Fast. That’s 11 forwards. Leaves one spot if you include McLeod. Two if not.
Cregg
That year was definitely Fast’s cup of coffee.
And sorry for how i speak sometimes, so quick and off the hip that i imply things without actually stating them and think people can feel where I’m coming from, when most people may not think like me.
My lemons
No to McLeod unless the match up dictates …..more youth since Meskanen and/or Lindqvist to have decent shot to make team this year…Meskanen looks like a good find
I’d love to see Howden crack the lineup. His contract isn’t slide candidate anymore, he had it slide 2 years in a row in Tampa ( tough to crack that lineup). He may be ready. They also have Meskanen and Lindqvist, as BobbyO mentioned. Ronning to a lesser degree. Not to mention Lettieri and Nieves, though I believe these two are going to be AHLers
One thing about Hayes is that he’s playing for his UFA deal now and he’ll have to earn it the hard way, whether its with us or not. If he stinks it up he will be losing millions in future earnings.
If he half a$$es it, pulls out of hits, doesn’t give it his all – then Quinn will be forced to make an example of him.
Lots of ifs this season:
If Kreider is ready to lead and be that big threat
If Z-Bad can put together a full season
If Butch can take the next step
If Namestoolong can find it real place
If Spoons can keep up his scoring pace
If Meskanen can score at NHL level
If Shatty can come back stronger
If BSmith can be playoffs 2017 BSmith
If Skjei can grow into top pair D
If Chytil & Andersson can grow into NHLers
If Pionk can prove he’s not a flash in the pan
The only way what they are doing with Hayes makes sense, is if this about next seasons cap space. They have Panerin targeted, and maybe someone else as well. Why else would you pay him for one year something that probably would have gotten it done for 5.
Sorry but you guys are anticipating things based off of assumptions and speculation. We all are. But I’m going to think how I’m guessing Gorton is thinking. It’s a one year deal playing out in a season where they’re going to have a young roster with Center depth that can be assessed on the NHL level. Hayes hasn’t even cracked 50 points in a year. Some of You guys act like he’s going to get Tavares money.
He’s in his first contract year before UFA. New coach, New style and has Chytil and Andersson and maybe Howden behind him and hopefully nipping at his heals. It could work out well for us.
He wasn’t traded for or drafted by the Rangers. If they trade him and get a first rounder that’s a bad thing? Think about that for a minute.
eventually you are going to need actual players James. A first round 18 year old who may be here in two years, who will be drafted in the mid to late 20s does not excite me. If you trade Hayes, it should be a hockey trade. You know to get actual hockey players. What Gorton did with this one year deal is limit the field, and the return.
Hayes should have been traded for players. A hockey trade. By signing him to a one year deal, you have made it a certainty that it will be picks and prospects. For who you ask? There are two very logical places. One is Winnipeg, where Trouba is. The other is CBJ, where Panerin is. One one for ones? Of course not, but you have the start of potential trades.
BDL not sure why either Winnipeg or Columbus would be interested in Hayes if he’s also a rental -they would need to get someone with term especially in those markets
Haze doesn’t need that kind of money. His pants are too short for his legs and he could use a shave/haircut. He could live on 75 grand. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. 🙂
BobbyO,
I said should have traded him before he signed for one year. As you said, he is now a rental limiting the amount of teams that will be interested in him. Making any possible return for Hayes, picks and prospects.
“One is Winnipeg, where Trouba is. The other is CBJ, where Panerin is”
Winnipeg wouldn’t be that interested in him, even if he was signed long term, not at the cost of Trouba. They have a lot of forwards they are going to have to pay in short order and Hayes wouldn’t be worth it to them. As for Panarin, you’ll be in the exact same situation you are in now, with a guy who is about to go UFA.
Hpnestly, there isn’t a good hockey trade involving Hayes unless you are trying to win now, which we are not.
BDL I agree with you. But do you think that everyone that has a chance to crack the lineup this year is incapable of being a player? Chytil, Andersson, Lindqvist, Howden, Meskanen. If none of those guys are players in two seasons we have bigger problems than losing Hayes or trading him for a draft pick.
You see who is ready to take the next step and you play Hayes out in a contract audition year. The motivation is there for him to have a career year. If he doesn’t crack 50 points or doesn’t impress then what? He’s the best of a bad bunch? Still like him more than Zibanejad so it’s bad asset management? I don’t see how this is such a bad thing.
A) It’s not like the cap room isn’t there to sign him to a long term deal.
B)especially if there’s a scenario where Howden Chytil and Andersson don’t look like any are capable of playing top 6 minutes then at least one of them are expendable so the log jam at center is less than it appears right now.
Vesey out of Harvard , held out and was wined and dined by a myriad of teams. So far, not great. He had better pick it up under this new coaching cabal or go into Accounting.
It’s not a big leap to think Panerin has his eyes on the Rangers. CBJ IS looking to win now. A deal with Hayes as the center piece could have possibly enticed CBJ.
Part of the reason Winnipeg liked Stastny was the short term of the contract. Going long term with a high cost forward just doesn’t work for them right now.
Maybe, unlike AV, play Haze to his offensive strengths and put him on a line with better defenders. Let him shoot like Annie Oakley and try to light it up.
BDL, my point is CBJ wouldn’t have traded for him even before he signed the 1 year deal because they would have had the exact same contract uncertainty that we had.
Sometimes I wonder if this type of outrage was around prior to us having locations on the internet to sound off about things.
I can already tell it’s going to be a long season when it comes to fans being angry critical and second guessing every decision the rookie head coach and developing players make. You know..all that stuff that comes after the statement “I would stand by a rebuild!”
More fantasy news: On a local podcast, Columbus’s primary beat-writer Aaron Portzline stated that the sense around the league is that Artemi Panarin wants to be a NYR. 😳
Soooo… that lineup isnt that far-fetched.
Lose for Hughes, sign EK as FA, trade for Panarin. Boom.
Putting Zibanejad aside for a minute let’s just focus on Hayes. I understand that he got hot late in the season and potted a bunch of goals and wound up with 25. But let’s be honest- he’s been up and down or injured for most of his career thus far. He took his fair share of criticism here just like everyone else. He’s not the clear cut #1 center the organization needs. Even if he put up 25-25-50 this season I think it’s tough these days to commit long term to centermen like him. The price is high, the position is extremely valuable and most teams that could be considered contenders have at least one star player at the dot.
The Rangers don’t have that luxury. What they have/have had are very good centers who get it done by committee when they’re in fact getting it done. Right now the roster is in transition. A lot of uncertainty and youth at center.
Are you really in favor of locking this guy up long term for 5-5.5 mill per? Before you answer that you should accept the fact that no matter how you may feel about Zibanejad, the organization and the GM in particular believe in the guy. So the “easy answer” of ‘well I’d trade Zibanejad and keep Hayes’ doesn’t apply.
They could decide Zibanejad isn’t part of the plan at some point. But it’s certainly not right now and right now is when they need to address the Hayes situation.
James,
They have clearly made the choice of Zibanejad over Hayes. I obviously feel that is a mistake, but that doesn’t really matter at this point. What matters is what is Hayes value on the trade market ? And does moving him to the wing, hells or hurts that value.
BDL, I’m not sure a move to wing matters either way. Staal was used on the Wing. guys like Perron and Marleau have had to do it before as well. Spooner is another example. it boils down to versatility.
Every time I think of the shabby use AV made of Marc’s big brother, my eyes curl up. Don’t be so simple as to tell me that he was hurt. I KNOW he was hurt.
Not saying Hayes is a star player but good centers are valuable and needed…Rangers are not going to get 1C Center through free agency so don’t see why long term commitment was issue here based on age, improvement in his game and fact that he can move to wing if needed. He probably would have agreed to lower money per year at longer term just thinking they did not want to include no trade
I’m going to go out on a limb and disagree with the notion that Hayes’ game improved last season. The season before? Absolutely.
But last year not so much. He did a great job as a shut down guy. He put up 10 goals in his final 19 games. But he wasn’t noticeable to the point that you needed him to be in year one of platooning with Zibanejad to be the top 2 center men. I don’t undervalue him and I maintain hope that he may be a pleasant surprise this season. But that doesn’t mean I love the idea of he and Zibanejad being the top paid centers on this team for the next 4-5 years
Carp if Howden plays a complete well rounded game I’d imagine he could be playing 3rd or 4th line Center at some point this season.
Not so sure the “fourth” line will be a throw away line like it was under AV
I like Hayes’ game, I think he did improve a lot, still think he’s going to be a better player than he’s been … but yeah, I don’t think they need him to be their No. 2 center long term. I still don’t think Zibanejad is a No. 1 either. Maybe Chytil will be one day. Not this year.
Rangers Report 2.0 
Pay the man…expect long term deal anyway
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Rangers fans in March:
I HATE HAYES. he sucks. Plays small and doesn’t shoot enough.
Rangers fans in July:
WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE ARE GONNA LOSE HAYES?!? We’re gonna Suck!
: D
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Agree with your 6:35, Pete.
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I sense that Hayes still has a college attitude. Deal him.
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Ranger fans in September, wow look at Zibanejad, he’s gonna be a star. Ranger fans when the Rangers play good teams, is Zibanejad playing?
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Hey kids. Sorry I’ve been away a bit. Just thought i’d let you know that I lost count how many times I typed SkjeL while writing that story Saturday.
and yes, funny each time.
Hope all y’all are well.
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I don’t mind to keep both for reasonable price (when it comes to HZie), but if the question is either or, I easily take Ziba over HZ (how you say it?) 6 times a week and twice at Saturday and Sunday (don’t know what that supposed to mean anyway…). Ziba is more mature, consistent and has more resolve, drive and talent and less hesitant that this, too often annoying, slouchy HZie. Besides, we have now more than enough coming centers, so risk is minimal – some of them, by the law of big numbers, will work right. After all, Hayes is not such a key player, who will carry this club on his shoulders. Far from it. Will be no regrets from me.
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SkjeL fish
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Shale Fish
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Oh, and Zibanedjad is not “prone to the injuries”, – just simply got unlucky, trying hard. I believe in him 8 days a week.
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Vesey to Skjei: “Heard you’re moving out. Where you goin’?”
Skjei: “Forget it; you can’t afford it.”
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Haze to SkjeL: “Might go with you. I’ll let you know by Friday.”
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skjei-D McSkjei.
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If Mika Zibanejad changed his name to Fred Jones, I’d take more interest in him.
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I miss Carp’s sense of humor around here.
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Carp is never not funny.
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NY Daliy News slowly breathing its last.
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Einsteins who own NY Daily News after laying everybody the hell off, will raise prices by 50% effective August 6.
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Good, solid business model.
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I don’t see the need to keep Hayes and Zbad long term. Given Zbad concussion history I would look to move him this year and I would be inclined to give Hayes the long term deal (5yrs tops) at 5.75(max), so long as there isn’t NMC. If they can’t come to terms, they should keep Zbad and trade haze ASAP, possibly as a package to increase value. A trade to a bottom 5 team would be best to increase chance for overall #1 in 2019. It will be great to see Gorton have the #1 overall pick and instead of taking the consensus #1 pick, he goes “off the board”. Read an article on top 50 league prospects and the only Ranger on the list was Chytl. Fishsticks had 3 top 50 prospects, including the two the Rangers past on this year.
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Carp is never not funny unless he’s talking about SkjeL, which is always not funny. In my opinion, of course.
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Carp is BANJING on The Athletic big time.
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Good morning, boneheads!
The more I think about the more I feel that this whole debate about Hayes vs Zibanejad is a little premature and based solely on LB’s interpretation. They do not have to be mutually exclusive.
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Coos
Mika Zibanejad>Mickey Badjad
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For me it’s not based on LB article, it’s about seeing what’s right in front of my face. You have the two 1st round picks in Andersson and Chytil that are going to need to be top 9. Plus you have a very highly thought of prospect in Howden who is going to be knocking on the door very soon. Something has to give at center. That something is either Hayes or Zibanejad. Hence the debate.
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Unless you move one of them on the wing. I think it’ll come down to the contract numbers.
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Hayes will be thrilled on a one year deal moving to the wing. A choice is eventually going to have to be made to maximize the value of the center position. If you wait till the deadline to trade Hayes, you will eliminate 2/3 of the teams. Leaving a handful that would be in on a rental. Move him, or Zibanejad now, you have the entire league in which to deal with.
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You could also say the same about Zuccarello. The deadline shortens the field. Though I suspect Zucc is not going anywhere.
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So for all the disappointment/anger about Kravstov – Wahlstrom will not be playing for the A$$landers this year. So if our guy plays after his KHL season finishes then i take back everything i ever said about OTBG
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After Zucc is traded ( you’re welcome, BDL ) their wing position is very thin.
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Move Lundqvist to the wing!
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Brooks is looking at the “Trade Hayes” story because he (wrongly) assumes that Chytil, Andersson, Zika and Hayes can only play center and none of them will play 4th line and that Hayes can’t be paid and center the “3rd” line.
Why would you trade away a big bodied C/RW unless you’re filling other holes on your roster? Unless the trade includes a top pair D, why shift him? If he won’t sign long term, then take the 1-yr and flip him after Christmas for as much as you can get
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Hank can’t play wing, he’d be too busy doing his hair in the reflection on the glass and MSG would have to invent a “panty policy” for the front row!!
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What player is the proxy to award Haze a $5.75M x 5 yr deal?
I would give him 2 yr deal @$5M and if he performs, pay him market rate if the pups don’t step up, but if he doesn’t than not on the hook for middle wing at bloated contract for another 3 seasons.
Zika should be on the wing – Kreider-Haze-Zika would be a fun line to watch
VC-Cheadle-Butch or Zucc
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I don’t think the issue on Hayes is the money per se. The figures thrown around are, whether we like it or not, about what he would get on open market. Personally, I think you can sign him to a five year deal and still move him at the deadline (probably easier) if you a) aren’t in contention and b) believe the kiddies are making big strides.
The reason I think the NYR are not pulling the trigger is they fear a regression and return to slacker Hayes once he gets the big check.
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Why would Hayes sign two years/$5M when he can get 1/$5.75 and hit the jackpot next July?
I think they will attempt an 11th hour long-term signing.
and if they go one year, they will try to extend him in January, or trade him in February.
BTW, they want Chytil and Andersson to play center to start their careers.
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You don’t move Hayes until you see how the other young centers develop…even then he would be fine on the wing, sign him long term and he will still have value….just make sure it does not include no trade
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The NMC is the issue to me. They have the cap space to sign him. If he signs for around market value he can be moved. They have lots of centers and LHDs in the pipeline now. They need to stay flexible so that they can move people based on which one of the prospects pan out. Also if Hayes breaksout under the new coaching staff the price will be a bargain.
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If Hayes gets one year, he will be even more allergic to contact.
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I want to see the kid centers.
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His movement clause(s), even if he gets one, won’t kick in until after this season because of his UFA eligibility. Interestingly, if he gets long term contract with NMC/NTC and gets traded during this season, his new team isn’t obligated to honor them.
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Lets not forget Hayes is patient…he stayed in college and waited out the Hawks to shape his own career so when it comes to gambling this could go right to the doors of the arbitration hearing before its settled and if it goes to a hearing he’ll just play the system.
In terms of players i think he could benefit big time from having Quinn as coach
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The Youths could play fourth line center. Thorton played on the fourth line for the Bruins his first year and he worked out OK. These guys are not MCDavid. They can move up if they earn it. Names and Spooner are wings if they are on the team come October.
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He needs Billy Martin as coach.
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Pull the lineup out of a hat.
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Who Dini?
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Carp,
What is more likely to occur, either Hayes, or Zibanejad move to the wing? Or the Rangers are willing to have Andersson or Chytil center the 4th line?
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Probably much more likely Hayes to the wing, IMO. And, yes, one of the kids is likely to play fourth line, at least for a while.
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The Hayes to the wing thing doesn’t need to happen for a while, at least until Howden is ready.
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you guys are going to love Howden, BTW.
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While Hayes may not seen like the sharpest tool in the shed, he’s brash, has advisors who school him on what’s best for him and he does what’s best for Him. That’s how he ended up a ranger. The guy will not sign anything other than a 1 year this year. He won’t sign without a full NMC clause and he can’t get one for this season, so why would he sign long term when he knows the rangers have been looking for trade him. He signs long term and he opens up the can of possibilities that he could be traded this year somewhere he doesn’t want to play and he’s signed for 4+ seasons.
If I’m Hayes my best play for my own interests is to only sign a 1 yr deal, so I expect that is what he is going to do
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If I’m the GM, my best interest is to get him to sign him to a one year deal 5.5 mil and then trade him retained before camp
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So a 50 pt center makes $5.5M+ over 5 years? Sign Haze for the one year and move if he doesn’t produce and/or regresses. To note, if he signs for 5 years, he will be 32 when contract is over. The Kevin Hayes Era…
.
Re new coach, one can say anybody will play better with new voice but AV gave him EVERY opportunity to succeed while he was coach. Maybe Quinn will instruct him to shoot more …
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So the answer is both, but not because of one another.
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so, if it were five years at $5.25M per, would that be better?
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Carp, I’d rather use him as a trade piece. Problem is, we don’t know what we have in Chytil/Andersson/Howden yet…. but that shouldn’t be an excuse to lock Hayes up for 5 years. I just feel like he’s a prime example of what we should be trying to distance ourselves from. Yes, he’s defensively responsible and will net you a few goals… but, he’s not a battler and won’t throw his weight around when the game gets gritty and the rink gets small. That’s my issue with him. I don’t think he’s worth the term or the cap space. But, what do I know…. That’s why I’m not an NHL GM.
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Market rate for good centers is gonna be in that range…Hayes should continue to improve and offensive numbers will go up more powerplay time
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Haze, then, will have to gamble that the 1 year 5.5 might be his last paycheck. One reason to want long-term. Paging Lloyd’s of London.
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So what do the Rangers do if they sign Haze long term and fall to say 28th, they luck out and win the lottery. They now have Chytil, Lias, Howden, Haze, and DJ Mika, do they select Jack Hughes? It could happen. Would this organization screw that up? Imagine OTB Gordie and Jeffie trying to figure that out!
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Traid Hazy Pete Townshend. The kids are alright.
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Haze tossed restaurant bill to his father. First check he’s thrown in three years.
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CraigWeather(1:28) hit the nail on the head.
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St Pete, that would be a terrible problem, to have too much young talent (s).
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Yute is wasted on the Jung.
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NMC seems to be the issue to me. He has more value if you trade him to someone who has control over him for several years at a market rate rather than as a rental..
BTW, so Spooner get sloopy fourths or fifths after Vesey, Names, SkejL and Hayes? Still wonder if he turned down a deal likes Names took.
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every team needs cheap yutes to make up for the over-paid vets.
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And even though I pick Zibanijad over Hayes if I have to choose, both Zibanijad’s and Hayes’ compete levels need to be better on a consistent basis.
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I don’t want or need anyone who is not all-out every shift.
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Tax free
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Where is trouba
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There’s Trouba in Paradise.
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I’d fly combat missions with Tax Free anytime.
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I’d either get Hayes locked in long term at a good number or trade him.
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“you guys are going to love Howden, BTW.”
The same was said about Blair Betts… and Tanner Glass, too 🙂
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If you don’t sign him long term you trade him at the deadline. Can’t let him walk for nothing. And some people did love Blair Betts and Tanner Glass. Some of those people were not even related to them.
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Less teams to trade him to at the deadline = less value in the trade. Now is the time to trade him. More teams would be interested.
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Glass wasn’t tanner than the Duke.
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Hayes-1 year. Just over $5m per Friedman
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So long, Kevin.
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BDL, have to disagree with you on when to trade him. Gotta set him up as an asset. Give him heavy offensive zone starts against weak competition and a lot of PP time. Inflate that value.
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Guess they can revisit extension in January or move him….they will know a lot more about young centers by then
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Also disagree with BdL
Teams now that aren’t expecting to be in mix aren’t buyers and want to see what their own young talent have or have budgets that won’t open for a trade unless they prove to be contenders. At the deadline playoff teams are hungry and bidding against each other and are willing to empty cupboards to go on a run. Too many unknowns for a lot of teams at this juncture.
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The way the pranced everybody’s favorite Doritos munching Masshole, you would have thunk he was part of the long term plan. Maybe not a good influence on the prodigal son; Shea in the Naked City.
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NYR Brass leaving room for Duschene who is UFA after this year…
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BDL
with prorated contracts it’s easier to trade a Hayes at deadline when more teams can fit him under the cap.
Eric
not sure where Trouba is now but in a month or so he’ll be in the peg.
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SN- I’d prefer Panerin, but Duchene would be a good add.
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Hayes will get his payday next July then……but it won’t be in Ranger blue.
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There are going to be maybe a half dozen teams to trade him to at the deadline. Which means a late first round pick, and a prospect, and he’d be a rental. The value in trading him would be before he signed the one year deal. The teams possibly trading for him could lock him up long term. They would pay more for that, and that would open up the entire league for them. Lousy job by Gorton. Poor assets management.
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Roster Management is el stinko with this franchise.
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We should have enough center and D depth now, the focus should be scoring wingers which is why I like Panerin
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If you’re a Hayes fan, this isn’t good news. Either he has a bad year and we let him walk, or he has a great year and we can’t afford him.
If you’re a Hayes detractor – this is great news. No long term commitment and he’s likely gone at the deadline.
I fall in the middle. I don’t think he’s shown he can keep it together consistently enough to be an impact player in this league. But he does have the skill. And if he DOES put it together, he’s a star.
This bugs Gorton time to see how things shake out with the kids. And if Hayes has a monster contract year, his rental price skyrockets.
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I see what u are saying BDL. If a franchise like the yotes thinks they can build around him like they did with step at the draft
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Roll out those lazy, crazy Hayes-y days of Summer. Those days of bam bam, spiked brownies, and bongs.
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Dave,
It’s a lose, lose deal.
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The best value for him was before July 5th. My guess Gorton tried and couldn’t get what he wanted for him. Now it’s trade deadline. They might attempt to resign him in January, but seems unlikely for many reasons.
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You do make a good point about the max play being a trade BEFORE the 1-year contract.
But for all we know, Gorton kicked the tires and nobody was offering much. Gorton IS open for business right now.
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I’d have gone 2 years and if moved him other team has a year left more pieces come back
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So Gorton is keeping his options open. If Chytl and Andersen (and Howden?) blow everyone’s doors off he can move Hayes. If not re can try to extend him or trade him. This has all got to be done by January. SkejL is the only one they committed to long term. We have to hope he is right or it may indeed stop being funny after a couple of years.
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To make it worse, this probably means Zibanejad is here to stay. BDL as a young fan would have loved Zibanejad. Now having seen so many Zibanejad type players, I see him for what he is, a tease of a player. He will never be as good as his talent says he should be. He will show you just enough to keep you hooked with the hope that this is the year he finally puts it all together. He will pile up the points against the lesser teams, and score some goals in garbage time against the good teams. he will score his goals on the PP on the perimeter, and score off the rush. But he won’t score much from the dirty areas because he won’t go there.
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Haze will never be a star/1C in this league based upon his first four seasons; his mental make up on the ice prevents him from taking his game to the next level; too much cutesy dipsy doo, not enough straight ahead hockey. That and is skating is problematic, as in, he is slow.
.
Are there players who suddenly break out and become first line stars in their fifth and sixth full season in the league at age 27 & 28?
.
Package him mid-season and go with the ‘lose for Hughes’ strategy.
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DJ’s are always outside the dance floor it’s just that simple!
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SN,
I know this not a fair comparison going back as far as I’m going to go right now, but the guy who Hayes has always reminded me of, Jean Ratelle, did just that. Broke out during his age 26 to 32 years. I think Hayes is primed to do just that, break out.
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I don’t think he’ll be a star, either. … but a good solid NHL player. And now a good trade asset.
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Eric
I doubt Hayes would have signed for 2 years. It was either 1 and be ufa in a year or long term.
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Yeah, no reason to go to two.
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hank Staal Kreider fast all that’s left of that finals team by training camp?
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Rangers blew their final chance when AV let Guy Boucher out-coach him by not adjusting to Boucher’s gimmicks
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OK, anyone in the last 30 years in the modern era. To be fair, Ratelle had a bad back injury which kept him from a full slate, played wing and also could skate.
.
Haze’s ceiling is a solid 2C who will shrink when the lights shine bright in the POs and he has to get greasy goals in the dirty areas around the crease in the second season.
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But they should have torn it after that loss to Pitt.
That was the golden unexpected opportunity. Hindsight the decision looks so easy. I would have made the hard decision then. Knew these last two years were coming. Was genuinely surprised when a path opened for them in 16-17, thought it might have been fate. Instead they blew it against an Ottawa team that gave them every chance to beat them.
Mac and step for hall/draistl and the 4oA. Chiarelli would have pulled the trigger. Both players signed long term at the time.
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Are you confusing Ratelle and Gilbert? I know Gilbert had a back injury, and he played the wing. I don’t remember Ratelle having a back injury ( he may have, I just don’t remember), and Ratelle was a center.
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It will be an interesting February with Hayes leading team in scoring
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Like ORF said, Gorton keeping his options open.
And unlike some teams, Gorton will use that added cap space to sign a guy like Panerin or Duchene if he gets the chance.
BobbyO- i wouldn’t be surprised. If Hayes doesn’t have his best year yet, it won’t be for lack of effort or focus. He’s playing for July 1st and that’s going to up his value, even if he will only be a rental for whoever gets him in the spring.
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JPP
when a team doesn’t win a cup it’s very easy to point to an alternative universe. there’s really no negative to something that didn’t happen at least supported by facts .
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“Are there players who suddenly break out and become first line stars in their fifth and sixth full season in the league at age 27 & 28?”
Jean Ratelle is the one that sticks out in my mind. WELL before my time, but for some reason the fact that he didn’t start scoring at a star clip until he was a bit older always stuck with me. However, it was his 2nd full season. He had an earlier season of 50-something games, and a lot of bouncing between minors and bigs before then. I gotta think that minor pro seasons have to count for something though.
Vic Hadfield was a grinder until he got put on a line with Ratelle and Gilbert and scored 50 goals at age 31.
MSL another one, but like Ratelle…he was older but it was his 3rd or 4th NHL season.
Our old friend Mike Knuble fits this mold perfectly. Depth player, then finally gets his shot on a top line at age 30 and goes on to score a ton.
Billy Guerin was a solid 2nd liner for the Devils for a long time, goes to Edmonton, and spends the rest of his career as a top-line player.
Brad Marchand is another late bloomer, in terms of first line production. Blake Wheeler was always a nice player to have, and he’s suddenly a star. It took Alex Radulov a ton of time and 2 trips overseas to find himself as a top liner. Joe Pavelski, always a good 2nd line center, suddenly took a huge step up around age 28, and got even better over the next few years. Robert Lang was the ultimate late bloomer, and put up first-line numbers for a few years.
It’s not totally out there that a guy hits his stride at 27ish…even if it’s been 4-6 years of inconsistency and frustrating potential.
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Alex your clueless if you didn’t see the signs after that Pitt loss
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Alex
You talk a lot here. But most of your stuff is just the standard take. Your just like most GMs…. behind the curve
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Foghorn Leghorn seeking a rooster spot.
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Dollar to a donut that aged Doogie still leads this team in scoring.
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Ratelle’s hockey career almost ended at age 23 when he suffered a serious back injury and had to undergo major spinal cord surgery.
When he finally played full seasons he produced. Yes, was a centre.
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Ranger Center arrested for hitting his stride.
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Pavelski was a real late bloomer…
At 24. 2008–09 80 25 34 59
At 25. 2009–10 67 25 26 51
At 26. 2010–11 74 20 46 66
.
Had trouble staying on The ice with injuries caused by, ya know, going to the net but he produced as a 2C as Jumbo was always 1C
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Jpp Re:800pm post
For the cup final team in 2014 it was Zucc on roster.
Jesper Fast has 3 playoff games played that year.
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Ha
I know zucc was on the roster, I was questioning if he’d be on the roster come camp/opening night.
regarding Fast, he was on the team right.
All I said was will hank, Staal, Kreider, and fast be the only guys who were on that finals team come camp.
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JPP
hindsight is 20/20. so congrats for that excellent vision.
and the year after they lost to Pitt they did make second rd and thereafter started the rebuild with the Stepan/Raanta trade.
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Let’s put it this way. If its trivia and the question is asked. Fast is included or the answer is wrong. I’m just naming names. And assuming zucc may be gone by camp
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Alex
If you were around the blog back then. Youd know I was calling for it immediately after Game 5 and never backed down from gutting it ever since. But you either weren’t here or were lurking so you think it’s hindsight
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Mind you I actually started calling for it after those two home games against Tampa in the ECF only to take a step back once we heard about the 3 one-legged D mac’s foot in game 7
This team showed it didn’t have that final element needed to win. That guy. And they were never gonna get that guy into the salary structure of that group or in time for that group.
16-17: wild card route, Ottawa. Rangers were just lucky to get that route, played well for 6 games and imploded over the next 7 and lost to Ottawa.
Pitt steamrolled us out of what became in hindsight a 4 year window 11-12/14-15 and went on to repeat.
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Mind you once more. Leading up to that ECF final loss. I was the biggest freakin glorified cheerleader you could get without paying me. I didn’t drink the koolaid, I was the koolaid. I believed in that group until I just knew that group wasn’t gonna get it done and it wasn’t really any of their faults. And That it would be smart to make the call right then and there.
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congrats JPP for such excellent vision. Any chance you can send your resume to Dolan.
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Ha,
If you knew me Alex, you might know I tried walking in the backdoor. Not really a resume guy😊
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Ahh Alex,
I’ve gotten sidetracked in this little verbiage with you. Sorry bud
I didn’t post my thoughts to have you coin it as alternative universe anymore than I did it to engage in this verbiage with you. Haha so on that note. Your free to your opinions and I’m free to mine. Enjoy your porthole of the universe
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Hopefully Hayes doesn’t become a soap opera during the season. If they somehow are in playoff contention and he is playing well it will controversial to trade him. If they stink no one will care. Let’s see if either side talks about an extension or if after this Hayes just wants to move on. He could feel like he got dissed after SkejL got the long money. Where’s Jimmy playing these days?
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Jpp. I was clarifying the roster. It wasn’t obvious that u intentionally left Zucc off the camp roster so I thought it was an honest oversight.
And it’s debatable if Fast is even in the answer if you’re talking about cup final team trivia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Stanley_Cup_Finals
Look at rosters. It doesn’t list fast.
Regular season and early playoffs he had His ”cup of coffee” that year.
Forgive me if I’m reading the persnippity-ness wrong.
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Fussy former Federal Agent: Persnippity Ness.
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Based on how the summer’s gone, you’d think Spooner gets a 1 year deal, a chance to see how he’s does, how the kids are doing and whether Gorton wants to deal him at the deadline. Or maybe they deal him now for a middle round pick?
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Hayes, Zibanejad, Andersson, Chytil, Kreider, Vesey, Namestnikov, Buchnevich, Zucc, Spooner, and Fast. That’s 11 forwards. Leaves one spot if you include McLeod. Two if not.
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Cregg
That year was definitely Fast’s cup of coffee.
And sorry for how i speak sometimes, so quick and off the hip that i imply things without actually stating them and think people can feel where I’m coming from, when most people may not think like me.
My lemons
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I like that Spoon can play center or wing. He kind of strikes me as a less inspired Lee Stempniak though. Wouldn’t really fit on a 4th line.
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Good mooring, boneheads!
BDL- that’s a pretty young line up. Zucc at 30 is the oldest, I’m not counting McLeod
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Question- do you think Gorton is done adding forwards?
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One of the things I’m most looking forward to this season is seeing how pionk evolves.
If all these young D prospects need a blueprint of how to earn a roster spot in the coming years it’s what he did last season.
Staal is in the twighlight of his ranger career but the good thing about still having him is the chemistry and mentor ship he showed to Pionk.
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No to McLeod unless the match up dictates …..more youth since Meskanen and/or Lindqvist to have decent shot to make team this year…Meskanen looks like a good find
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I’d love to see Howden crack the lineup. His contract isn’t slide candidate anymore, he had it slide 2 years in a row in Tampa ( tough to crack that lineup). He may be ready. They also have Meskanen and Lindqvist, as BobbyO mentioned. Ronning to a lesser degree. Not to mention Lettieri and Nieves, though I believe these two are going to be AHLers
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Saw Boo working out with Kreider yesterday … Kreider, BTW, is down to 215. Said he’s as strong as he was at 235. Obviously faster.
I think Meskanen has an excellent chance to make the team. Lindqvist too.
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Howden, Carp?
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Wonder which Haze we will get…
“This is the year” Haze or “I’m only here for a year” Haze?
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Let’s not forget that Hayes was found money. He was such an important piece for us to sign after trading away so many consecutive first rounders.
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One thing about Hayes is that he’s playing for his UFA deal now and he’ll have to earn it the hard way, whether its with us or not. If he stinks it up he will be losing millions in future earnings.
If he half a$$es it, pulls out of hits, doesn’t give it his all – then Quinn will be forced to make an example of him.
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Lots of ifs this season:
If Kreider is ready to lead and be that big threat
If Z-Bad can put together a full season
If Butch can take the next step
If Namestoolong can find it real place
If Spoons can keep up his scoring pace
If Meskanen can score at NHL level
If Shatty can come back stronger
If BSmith can be playoffs 2017 BSmith
If Skjei can grow into top pair D
If Chytil & Andersson can grow into NHLers
If Pionk can prove he’s not a flash in the pan
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If Meskanen, and Lindqvist are making the team, who of the 11 I mentioned are not?
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What does that mean Doodie?
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Whatever we get for him will be a net positive since he wasn’t an asset we spent any capital to acquire
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Simon,
Unless he gets injured, Hayes is getting paid next year. You can write that in ink.
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The only way what they are doing with Hayes makes sense, is if this about next seasons cap space. They have Panerin targeted, and maybe someone else as well. Why else would you pay him for one year something that probably would have gotten it done for 5.
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I don’t think I agree with that thinking.
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regarding adding forwards
maybe a Callahan type if Tampa makes it well worth our while
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Sorry but you guys are anticipating things based off of assumptions and speculation. We all are. But I’m going to think how I’m guessing Gorton is thinking. It’s a one year deal playing out in a season where they’re going to have a young roster with Center depth that can be assessed on the NHL level. Hayes hasn’t even cracked 50 points in a year. Some of You guys act like he’s going to get Tavares money.
He’s in his first contract year before UFA. New coach, New style and has Chytil and Andersson and maybe Howden behind him and hopefully nipping at his heals. It could work out well for us.
He wasn’t traded for or drafted by the Rangers. If they trade him and get a first rounder that’s a bad thing? Think about that for a minute.
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eventually you are going to need actual players James. A first round 18 year old who may be here in two years, who will be drafted in the mid to late 20s does not excite me. If you trade Hayes, it should be a hockey trade. You know to get actual hockey players. What Gorton did with this one year deal is limit the field, and the return.
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Wondering if Calgary revisits trade for Hayes now
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@Carp: What’s the deal (if any) with Boo? Other than carrying THE’s water bottle?
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If Boo is training to add speed and bit of muscle then pencil him in for 4th line C and switch Chytil or Andersson to wing
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I disagree that Hayes should be traded for players. He’s already so young; who would you get?
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Hayes should have been traded for players. A hockey trade. By signing him to a one year deal, you have made it a certainty that it will be picks and prospects. For who you ask? There are two very logical places. One is Winnipeg, where Trouba is. The other is CBJ, where Panerin is. One one for ones? Of course not, but you have the start of potential trades.
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I miss Kevin Hayes 😦
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BDL not sure why either Winnipeg or Columbus would be interested in Hayes if he’s also a rental -they would need to get someone with term especially in those markets
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Hope that after early experimentation, Quinn decides on D pairings and sticks with them. AV had them all in a season-long state of confused zombi-ism.
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Haze doesn’t need that kind of money. His pants are too short for his legs and he could use a shave/haircut. He could live on 75 grand. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. 🙂
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BobbyO,
I said should have traded him before he signed for one year. As you said, he is now a rental limiting the amount of teams that will be interested in him. Making any possible return for Hayes, picks and prospects.
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Hazy , lazy days oi summer around here lately.
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“One is Winnipeg, where Trouba is. The other is CBJ, where Panerin is”
Winnipeg wouldn’t be that interested in him, even if he was signed long term, not at the cost of Trouba. They have a lot of forwards they are going to have to pay in short order and Hayes wouldn’t be worth it to them. As for Panarin, you’ll be in the exact same situation you are in now, with a guy who is about to go UFA.
Hpnestly, there isn’t a good hockey trade involving Hayes unless you are trying to win now, which we are not.
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BDL I agree with you. But do you think that everyone that has a chance to crack the lineup this year is incapable of being a player? Chytil, Andersson, Lindqvist, Howden, Meskanen. If none of those guys are players in two seasons we have bigger problems than losing Hayes or trading him for a draft pick.
You see who is ready to take the next step and you play Hayes out in a contract audition year. The motivation is there for him to have a career year. If he doesn’t crack 50 points or doesn’t impress then what? He’s the best of a bad bunch? Still like him more than Zibanejad so it’s bad asset management? I don’t see how this is such a bad thing.
A) It’s not like the cap room isn’t there to sign him to a long term deal.
B)especially if there’s a scenario where Howden Chytil and Andersson don’t look like any are capable of playing top 6 minutes then at least one of them are expendable so the log jam at center is less than it appears right now.
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Vesey out of Harvard , held out and was wined and dined by a myriad of teams. So far, not great. He had better pick it up under this new coaching cabal or go into Accounting.
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It’s not a big leap to think Panerin has his eyes on the Rangers. CBJ IS looking to win now. A deal with Hayes as the center piece could have possibly enticed CBJ.
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Part of the reason Winnipeg liked Stastny was the short term of the contract. Going long term with a high cost forward just doesn’t work for them right now.
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But then there’s no guarantee Hayes signs there long term, either, so why would CBJ make that deal?
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coos, Vesey is a fine depth player. Good 3rd liner.
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Maybe, unlike AV, play Haze to his offensive strengths and put him on a line with better defenders. Let him shoot like Annie Oakley and try to light it up.
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Vesey at 2.5 mil is fairly compensated. Just another face.
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PanArin
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That’s why giving him a one year deal was a mistake!
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A one year deal is generally quietly interpreted as a serious lack of confidence in the player be he slug or superstar.
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BDL, my point is CBJ wouldn’t have traded for him even before he signed the 1 year deal because they would have had the exact same contract uncertainty that we had.
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Your 2019-2020 New York Rangers.
Panarin-Zibanejad-Andersson
Kreider-Hughes-Buchnevich
Namestnikov-Chytil-Kravtsov
Vesey-Howden-Fast
Skjei-Karlsson
Hajek-Shattenkirk
Smith-Pionk
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Wow, Hughes, Panarin, and Karlsson. Is McDavid injured?
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McDavid healthy scratch.
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rest him for the playoffs. Good idea.
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LTIR too…
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Sometimes I wonder if this type of outrage was around prior to us having locations on the internet to sound off about things.
I can already tell it’s going to be a long season when it comes to fans being angry critical and second guessing every decision the rookie head coach and developing players make. You know..all that stuff that comes after the statement “I would stand by a rebuild!”
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More fantasy news: On a local podcast, Columbus’s primary beat-writer Aaron Portzline stated that the sense around the league is that Artemi Panarin wants to be a NYR. 😳
Soooo… that lineup isnt that far-fetched.
Lose for Hughes, sign EK as FA, trade for Panarin. Boom.
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Putting Zibanejad aside for a minute let’s just focus on Hayes. I understand that he got hot late in the season and potted a bunch of goals and wound up with 25. But let’s be honest- he’s been up and down or injured for most of his career thus far. He took his fair share of criticism here just like everyone else. He’s not the clear cut #1 center the organization needs. Even if he put up 25-25-50 this season I think it’s tough these days to commit long term to centermen like him. The price is high, the position is extremely valuable and most teams that could be considered contenders have at least one star player at the dot.
The Rangers don’t have that luxury. What they have/have had are very good centers who get it done by committee when they’re in fact getting it done. Right now the roster is in transition. A lot of uncertainty and youth at center.
Are you really in favor of locking this guy up long term for 5-5.5 mill per? Before you answer that you should accept the fact that no matter how you may feel about Zibanejad, the organization and the GM in particular believe in the guy. So the “easy answer” of ‘well I’d trade Zibanejad and keep Hayes’ doesn’t apply.
They could decide Zibanejad isn’t part of the plan at some point. But it’s certainly not right now and right now is when they need to address the Hayes situation.
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Ok now… which one of you butthurt babies blocked WICKY from posting on the blog?! Like, seriously?! Cmon, now! WOW.
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James-1:52. Well said.
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I certainly didn’t. I had removed a post or two of his (and others) but never block anyone other than the troll.
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James,
They have clearly made the choice of Zibanejad over Hayes. I obviously feel that is a mistake, but that doesn’t really matter at this point. What matters is what is Hayes value on the trade market ? And does moving him to the wing, hells or hurts that value.
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I don’t see that he’s blocked.
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Has anyone made sure he’s ok? The Skjei deal may have been too much for him.
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Ricky was whacked? Oh the humanity.
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Wicky. Ugh.
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BDL, I’m not sure a move to wing matters either way. Staal was used on the Wing. guys like Perron and Marleau have had to do it before as well. Spooner is another example. it boils down to versatility.
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lol James… he said hes ok just cant post for some reason.
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C3 Prophecy!
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Every time I think of the shabby use AV made of Marc’s big brother, my eyes curl up. Don’t be so simple as to tell me that he was hurt. I KNOW he was hurt.
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tell him to e-mail me
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AV or Staal?
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Not saying Hayes is a star player but good centers are valuable and needed…Rangers are not going to get 1C Center through free agency so don’t see why long term commitment was issue here based on age, improvement in his game and fact that he can move to wing if needed. He probably would have agreed to lower money per year at longer term just thinking they did not want to include no trade
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Hayes has become a pipe dream!
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Cooscoos
so what’s your point if you know he was hurt and was bad for Carolina that year too.
he was pretty meh in playoffs for Minny last year btw. I guess that’s AV’s fault too.
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Rather pay a small fortune for a true #1 center than pay Haze something under 6 long term.
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get lost
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NYR will be all in on Panarin if he gets to UFA. If he’s going to be traded as a rental, very unlikely.
I think Howden will likely start in Hartford, ilb. But he won’t be there too long, unless there’s no place for him to play here.
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IS IT OCTOBER YET?!
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I’m going to go out on a limb and disagree with the notion that Hayes’ game improved last season. The season before? Absolutely.
But last year not so much. He did a great job as a shut down guy. He put up 10 goals in his final 19 games. But he wasn’t noticeable to the point that you needed him to be in year one of platooning with Zibanejad to be the top 2 center men. I don’t undervalue him and I maintain hope that he may be a pleasant surprise this season. But that doesn’t mean I love the idea of he and Zibanejad being the top paid centers on this team for the next 4-5 years
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Carp if Howden plays a complete well rounded game I’d imagine he could be playing 3rd or 4th line Center at some point this season.
Not so sure the “fourth” line will be a throw away line like it was under AV
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I like Hayes’ game, I think he did improve a lot, still think he’s going to be a better player than he’s been … but yeah, I don’t think they need him to be their No. 2 center long term. I still don’t think Zibanejad is a No. 1 either. Maybe Chytil will be one day. Not this year.
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If Hayes is going to be better, creates offense and projects to score 25-30 goals a year wouldn’t he be worth the salary whether is center or wing
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Spooner for two years.
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2 x$4M
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2 years at $4m for Spoons
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…and with that our GM is off to the Hamptons for the summer
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That’s a lot for Spooner. Yuck.
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You do realize the way this team is presently built, they are a boarder line playoff team.
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They can be competitive. Making the playoffs isn’t life or death though.
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Kreider, Zibanejad, Buchnevich
Namestnkov, Hayes, Zucc
Vesey, Chytil, Spooner
?, Andersson, Fast.
Skjei, Shatennkirk
Staal, Pionk
Smith, Claussen.
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NEW POST
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Hope spooner is tradeable to a contender who needs depth or has a middle 6 injury they need to replace.
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